Help selecting computer

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 11 Jan 2007, 20:31

Lourdes wrote:
romerojpg wrote:Theres a few DX10 cards on the market, not sure if they are in shops yet.

I know the new king of graphics cards the NVidea Geforce 8800 GTX is DX10 but hell its over 400 quid no way...
The 8800GTS is as low as £250 which is very reasonable.

indeed

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 11 Jan 2007, 20:45

So these fancy gfx cards can all output to an HDTV? Like an LCD?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 11 Jan 2007, 20:58

Any graphics card can as all LCDs (Plasmas too no doubt) have VGA ports but the best output for a PC is a DVI connection if your graphics card has one.

You can get DVI to HDMI adapters. An LCD TV is a TFT monitor basically, but bigger. The quality is VERY good.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 11 Jan 2007, 21:19

Brad wrote:Thanks anyway Tom. You don't care about the Internet??? Or DVD Burning?

I don't mind waiting a couple of seconds for a web page or a window to open. I'd rather have more frames per second in games.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 11 Jan 2007, 21:20

BiscLimpkit wrote:So these fancy gfx cards can all output to an HDTV? Like an LCD?

Of course. And the latest support HDCP too.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 11 Jan 2007, 21:24

tom2681 wrote:I don't mind waiting a couple of seconds for a web page or a window to open. I'd rather have more frames per second in games.

Web speed is virtually all depended on broadband speed. A slower Intel or AMD isn't going to make a page load slower and neither will a a faster pc make it load any quicker.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 11 Jan 2007, 21:41

I'm not talking about bandwidth.
I'm talking about displaying the page once it's loaded.

That requires a quick burst of processing power that only Intel can provide (I've tested it on several PCs).

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 11 Jan 2007, 21:52

tom2681 wrote:I'm not talking about bandwidth.
I'm talking about displaying the page once it's loaded.

That requires a quick burst of processing power that only Intel can provide (I've tested it on several PCs).

Nonsense. There are no architectural differences that will affect the speed of web page rendering. Any difference there can be attributed to server, connection, OS and browser.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 11 Jan 2007, 22:28

This case should be nice huh?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showprodu ... =CA-065-AN

Keep things nice and coooool. I take it I'd need a 500W power supply? What's a good mobo btw? There are so many.

I want AM2

But what's SLI-ready, MicroATx, Crossfire ready?!

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 11 Jan 2007, 22:37

A word of warning, Overclockers is one of the worst companies ever. Check merchant review sites and TheDVDforums suppliers forum.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 11 Jan 2007, 22:44

Cheers Lourdes, I've been told these guys are a bit evil...

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 11 Jan 2007, 23:03

Some mobo's only support SATA hard disks? I've been told that it's Serial ATA. What does it all mean?!

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 11 Jan 2007, 23:25

BiscLimpkit wrote:Some mobo's only support SATA hard disks? I've been told that it's Serial ATA. What does it all mean?!

SATA is a newer drive interface, little faster in practice and much thinner cables.
PATA (Paralell ATA) is what it has replaced but it still used for almost all optical drives.
I don't think there any boards with just SATA.
You'll be wanting an SATA hard drive.

To be honest Bisc I think you may be better off buying a complete system unless you're prepared to do a lot of reading up first. You can get reasonable systems for comparable prices to components, you'd just need to slap in a better graphics card and maybe some more RAM.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 12 Jan 2007, 02:01

Bisc wrote:But what's SLI-ready, MicroATx, Crossfire ready?!

SLI is an NVidia system that allows you to put 2 NVidia cards on one mobo.
Crossfire is its ATI counterpart.

Micro ATX is a motherboard format (a small one that should be avoided).
Normal-sized cases come with ATX mobos.

About Serial-ATA:
As Lourdes said, S-ATA is a new(ish) drive interface (that's where you plug in your Hard-Drives and DVD-Drives).
There's S-ATA 1 and S-ATA 2.
Ideally, a motherboard should have 2 S-ATA 2 ports and 2 old IDE Ports.

Gotta agree with Lourdes, though.
No offense Bisc, but you're a bit newbie-ish for this kind of thing.
When you're building a PC, you really need to understand what you're doing.

-You need to tie the power cords together so they don't come in contact with the motherboard.
-You need to use the lower PCI slots instead of the upper ones to give your GFX card space to breathe.
-When connecting your drives, you need to know which one is set to Master, and which one is set to Slave.
-Then you need to properly set up the Bios...

I suppose you could find a few good step-by-step guides on the web, but it's easy to make a mistake when you're building a PC.

Lourdes wrote:Nonsense. There are no architectural differences that will affect the speed of web page rendering

That's the same thing I said when I made the tests.

I can't explain it. Intels are faster than AMDs in "desktop applications" (Internet Explorer, Windows Explorer, Outlook, etc...).

Maybe it has to do with the quantity of memory in the CPU's L2 cache ?
Maybe it has to do with the motherboards ?

I really don't know.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 12 Jan 2007, 02:43

tom2681 wrote:That's the same thing I said when I made the tests.
I can't explain it. Intels are faster than AMDs in "desktop applications" (Internet Explorer, Windows Explorer, Outlook, etc...).

Maybe it has to do with the quantity of memory in the CPU's L2 cache ?
Maybe it has to do with the motherboards ?

I really don't know.

As I said, any differences are down to OS, application and network. Not local hardware.
But just to humour you I ran some page rendering benchmarks a few times on a single core Opteron, 4x dual-core Opteron, single core P4 HT and 2x quad-core Xeon. No discernable difference except on the 8 core Opteron which was using IE7 instead of 6 and so it was faster.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 12 Jan 2007, 18:31

Thanks for the concern guys but I have friends to help me build this thing. Here's a quote from dabs:

MSI AM2 nForce 570 ATX Audio Dual GB Lan Raid Passive - £61.10
Thermaltake Tsunami Aluminium Black Case with Window - No PSU - £75.61
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200 AM2 2.2GHz - £111.61
Akasa Ultra quiet 80+, 500watts PSU with Black 12cm Fan - £69.52
Corsair Memory TWIN2X2048-6400C4 2x1GB 240-Pin DIMM XMS2-6400 CL4 - £198.26
Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 500GB S300 - £109.99
Sapphire Technology Radeon X1950XT 256MB GDDR3 PCIE Dual DVI VIVO - £164.88

Shipping - £11.62

Total - £802.59

I can rape my old PC for the DVD +RW. I'll need a heatsink as well... any recommendations? What else do I need?

Also, am I buying something that's not necessary? I just want it to be well ventilated... no fry-ups. Is 2GB RAM necessary for games? Or will 1GB suffice?

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 12 Jan 2007, 19:02

1GB of Ram will get you around in games, but 2GB seems to be needed for newer games or you will experience loading and jittering etc.. on some big levels.

Still the more the merrier In say

I want 2 GB myself (as photo editing is emense on the memory and I do a bit of that), but hell time will tell as you can always upgrade in a while if you find what you bought just isnt quite enuff.

The fans and stuff like that are the thing I would be weary of, as I want silent fans only, very important I say as hell my PC now is not silent, not even close to it

I hate the hum of a lot of PC's it ruins everything when they even noticable, its amazing when you experince a truley silent PC.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 12 Jan 2007, 19:13

Yeah I'm trying to go with silent fans. Thermaltake case generates some noise but not much. The Antec Nine Hundred Ultimate Gaming case is meant to be really quiet though. Hmmm which case would you get?

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 12 Jan 2007, 19:22

I havent looked into cases yet

but I feel silent is the only way to go, if it costs a bit more then so be it for me. I just hate that PC droneing noise so much. I would like silent, but depending on what parts you use it may never be silent.

Thats one thing I havent looked into yet and most reviews of pre built PC's for instance sem to not even talk about it, if you getting a powerful PC its gonna need lots of cooling and I hate it when people neglect to say its a BIG noisy bugger

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Jan 2007, 19:48

Considering memory cost Romero's right you may as well get 2Gb now. General usage it's overkill but the cost and you're buying a super-duper system for £800 1Gb seems low.

I'd "personally" cut costs on the case as over £100 for a case + PSU is loads IMO. Surely you can get a case WITH 500 Watt PSU? Whenever I've bought a case it's come with one.

Lourdes wrote:PATA (Paralell ATA) is what it has replaced but it still used for almost all optical drives.

And better known as IDE.

I wouldn't want an IDE hard disk now SATA is the future.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 12 Jan 2007, 19:51

Depends on what memory you buy for it to be cheap

some of it costs more than some full PC's.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Jan 2007, 19:57

romerojpg wrote:Depends on what memory you buy for it to be cheap some of it costs more than some full PC's.

True but some is a rip off. As long as it's branded, a reasonable price and the right spec/speed the rest IMO is overkill.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 12 Jan 2007, 21:16

Hmm maybe I could same some cash on the case+PSU costs....

Like Romero, I'm big into photoshopping so extra memory won't hurt.

Tom, Lourdes, anyone - what do you think of the aforementioned cases? Are there any cheaper alternatives that won't fry my setup?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Jan 2007, 21:23

BiscLimpkit wrote:Hmm maybe I could same some cash on the case+PSU costs....

I'd think any case with a 500 Watt PSU won't fry your setup but I'm completely out of touch with what's hot and prices so don't take my word for it.

I've just never spent that kind of cash is all (on a piece of metal aka case). IMO your case is very OTT but agreed it does look lovely, it's a case though.

Again just my opinion.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 13 Jan 2007, 06:32

Regarding the RAM:
I've got a couple of games that require 1,4 gb of it.

So I'd recommend:
-Either 3x 512 mb.
-Or 2x 1 gb.

1 gb is too low.