Swordsman 2: Mei Ah Remaster (R0HK) vs Optimum (R2UK)

[tom2681]

it's not like those awful Tai Chi Master 5.1 mixes right?

'course not.
It's a decent remix.

the speech is ONLY coming out of the centre channel right ?

Yep, it's not a fake Mono -> 5.1 conversion.

[bradavon]

Thanks Tom and thanks for a decent answer on the 5.1 without resorting to "it's a remix so MUST be awful" remark you usually get (that tells me nothing).

Thanks everyone else too.

I was all set to get the UK OA as those Kloofy subs are very good BUT the actual UK OA subs aren't really that much better, the Mei Ah is overall better (it's overall sharper) and I like 5.1 remixes on action films.

So in short it's off to DDDHouse to place another order. I think I'll get Big Bullet with it to bump the order. Pity CD WOW no longer sell Swordsman 2 Mei Ah Remaster.

[Markgway]

The Mei Ah is generally sharper in slow-moving scenes thanks to a better print. It looks soft in fast-moving/detailed scenes because of its low bitrate.

The film contains a lot of fast-moving scenes....... But I guess it's down to personal perference.

[Markgway]

I think I'll get Big Bullet with it to bump the order.

You know this is letterboxed, right?

[bradavon]

Yes thanks but it's the only version in the world I think let alone the only one with English subs, right?

That said I'll just order Swordsman 2 but not bother with anything else this time. I've ordered enough.

[Markgway]

Yes thanks but it's the only version in the world I think let alone the only one with English subs, right?

Yeah, I just thought I'd mention it.

That said I'll just order Swordsman 2 but not bother with anything else this time. I've ordered enough.

Big Bullet is entertaining so don't let me put you off. It's cheap too.

[bradavon]

Thanks and you didn't. Even at £2.92 I really don't need it and it would take me months-years to watch.

[ericf]

I'd like to add that, yes, the UK R2 Optimum Asia release is a DVD-5. It should have been a DVD-9 but they're cheap. It is a little too soft but over all it's better than the Mei Ah remeaster since that one smears a lot and the subs totally stink. The image doesn't have much black in it since the brightness is so cranked up. The UK caps look very dark but if you watch it on a well calibrated TV the contrast and detail in both light and shadow is good.

The subs are not great but they're miles ahead of the Mei Ah subs. Some lines that didn't make sense in the Mei Ah subs are still in the Optimum subs so I decided to make a full check on them. I had to listen to the dub at times to find out what the translators thought the dialog should be about and where it fit in I actually used that dilaog in my subs. The result is a sub that is at least 80% good english and if not perfectly understandable it's at least as clear as we're likely to have it.

So, UK Optimum DVD is my preferance.

I do wonder if there's any point in getting the three Swordsman movies from HK Video when they release their box set next year. There are no decent subs for The East is Read. Why? Because the Optimum release of that movie was severely cut (according to internet sources and the runtime on the site: http://www.optimumreleasing.com/dvd.php?id=202
It's only 83 minutes long while the Mei Ah remaster is 97 minutes).

ericf

[bradavon]

You had to wait to comment "after" I'd bought the Mei Ah

The subs are not great but they're miles ahead of the Mei Ah subs.

Please give more detail? The subs example Tom and Mark have come up with don't look all that much different.

I've ordered the Mei Ah Remaster from DDDHouse. I'm sure it will be fine for me.

I had to listen to the dub at times to find out what the translators thought the dialog should be about and where it fit in I actually used that dilaog in my subs.

I wouldn't rely on the English dub for accuracy. Why did you create your own subs?

I do wonder if there's any point in getting the three Swordsman movies from HK Video when they release their box set next year. There are no decent subs for The East is Read. Why?

Why indeed? I'm sure HK Video will create new subs, they'll have to anyway as it's French subs for HK films aren't common.

Because the Optimum release of that movie was severely cut (according to internet sources and the runtime on the site: http://www.optimumreleasing.com/dvd.php?id=202
It's only 83 minutes long while the Mei Ah remaster is 97 minutes).

What have the East is Red subs got to do with it being cut?

I wouldn't assume because the OA East is Red the HK Video will be too. The OA is PAL so that will account for at least part of the difference.

[ericf]

First, I hadn't seen this thread before yesterday.
Second, I didn't create my own script.
Third, if someone takes the subs from the Optimum East Is Red there will be problems with timing since I don't know where they have cut out parts. I know they cut out some of the beginning but nothing about the rest.

On issue two, as I said, the subs of the Optimum kept some of the confused grammar of the Mei Ah subs so I decided to make a subtitle track that had fairly correct english in ALL lines.

One glaring thing in fans eyes will be the fact that Optimum kept the faulty use of Invincible Dawn instead of Invincible Asia, as the correct name for Ms Lin's character seems to be.

I'll state a number of examples where I have changed the lines because of grammar and other things.

I'll use the timing from the Optimum original script to show where the subs appear:

37
00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:16,191
You've repeated this twice.
Would you repeat it twice again?

My Take:
You've said this twice already.
Would you repeat it twice again?

Mei Ah:
Same as Optimum
___

110
00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,229
I think Ling won't come tonight.

My take:
I don't think Ling will come tonight.

Mei Ah:
See Optimum
_____

132
00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,356
Try out the good wine.

My take:
Try this good wine.

Mei Ah:
See Optimum
___

137
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,909
Ask him to stay and drink with you.
I've finished my speech.

138
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,999
He wants to lead a secluded life.

139
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,076
But I'm still with the worldly mess.

140
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,112
He can give up, but not me.

My take:

Ask him to stay and drink with you.
I've finished my speech.
He wants to lead a secluded life.
But I have to stay here.
(It's debatable, I know but what does that Worldly Mess mean?)
He can give up, but I can not.

Mei Ah:
See Optimum except:
But I'm still with the worldly mass.
_____

248
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,479
Why did you become crazy?

My take:
Are you crazy?

Mei Ah:
Why you become crazy?
_______

288
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,435
- What about the soup?
- Take it with us.

My take:
- What about the soup?
- We'll take it with us.

Mei Ah:
See Optimum
_____

294
00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,434
They coming in,
should we wait for Scum Bag?

My take:
They're coming in,
should we wait for Scum Bag?

Mei Ah:
See Optimum.
___

297
00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:48,749
- Maybe there are enemies.
- Two men stay to see if anyone's alive.

My take:
- Maybe there are enemies.
- Let two men stay and check if anyone's still alive.

Mei Ah:
Let two men stay and check
if anyone's still alive.
___

501
00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:38,797
Go and see the Chief now.
If you go yourself, she'd be happy.

My take:
Go and see the Chief now.
She'll be so happy to see you.

Mei Ah:
See Optimum
____

523
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,758
I'm afraid that
your father's life is in danger.

524
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,997
Not now.
My dad has lots of faithful friends.

525
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,908
He controls them with my dad's life
and will kill them next.

My take:

I'm afraid that
your father's life is in danger.
Not yet.
My father has lots of faithful friends.
He controls them with my father's life
and will kill them next.

Mei Ah:

I'm afraid that
your father's life is in danger.
Not now.
My dad has lots of faithful fellows.
He'd control the fellows
with dad's life.
And kill them next.
____

569
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,870
Don't mention
my metamorphosis anymore.

My take:
Don't mention
my metamorphosis again.

Mei Ah:
See Optimum
______

592
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:38,759
A unexpected guest!
Retreat to the hiding place.

My take:
A unexpected guest!
Hide yourself.

Mei Ah:
A rare guest!
Retreat to the hiding place.
____

622
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:54,718
How do you know what I'm saying?

623
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,908
We have grown in the troubled world.

624
00:52:13,040 --> 00:52:16,555
When we join in the troubled world,
we grow older and older.

625
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,399
People love to seize power.

626
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:23,832
But I prefer drinking!

627
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:46,160
I don't think you'd ever understand.
We'll never have hatred.

628
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:47,713
If everybody was like us,

629
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:49,796
we wouldn't have to leave to find peace.

My take:

How do you know what I'm saying?
We live in a troubled world.
As we grow older,
some seek power.
But I prefer drinking!
We'll never fight again.
We'll only have harmony.
If everybody was like us,
we wouldn't have to leave to find peace.

(I used the dub here. The original subs don't really make much sense.)

Mei Ah:
How you know what I'm talking?
We are grown in the troubled world.
When we join in the troubled world,
we grow older and older.
People love to seize their power.
But I prefer drinking!
I don't think you'd understand it,
now or in future.
So we'll never have hatred.
If everybody is like us.
We don't have to leave for peace.
________

665
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:04,795
You are Master Wu?

666
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:10,314
Don't be scared of it.
Dawn locked my bones...

667
00:58:10,440 --> 00:58:12,237
...preventing me using martial arts.

668
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,756
He only gives me water.

669
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:19,316
- He just tortures me!
- Stop! Let's go out and continue.

My take:
You are Master Wu?
Don't be scared of how I look.
Asia locked my bones...
...to prevent me from using martial arts.
He only gives me water.
- He just tortures me!
- Stop! Let's leave. You can continue later.

Mei Ah:
You are Master Wu?
Don't be scared!
Dawn locked my bone...
to forbid me using martial arts.
He only gives me water.
He just tortures me!
Stop! Let's go out and continue.
______

726
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:52,429
What's the matter?

727
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:55,154
It's our holy job
to kill the bad ones.

728
01:02:55,280 --> 01:03:01,355
We'd co-operate together
to kill the bastard!

729
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:05,758
If you promise me
I can share my reign with you.

My take:

What's the matter?
It's our holy duty to destroy such evil.
We must work together
to kill that bastard!
If you promise me this, then I can share
my reign of this sect with you.
(some use of dub here)

Mei Ah:
What's the matter?
It's our holy job
to kill the bad eggs.
We'd co-operate together.
To kill the bastard!
If you promise me...
I can share reign with you.
______

757
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:06,079
Ying, won't go with me.

758
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:08,760
I won't get involved
in the troubled world for Ying.

759
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:11,075
I won't tell this joke to anyone.

My take:
Ying doesn't want to go with me.
And I've given up on fighting.
I won't tell anyone about this joke.

Mei Ah:
Ying, won't go with me.
I won't get involved
into world business for Ying.
I won't tell this joke to anyone.
_____

777
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:11,751
It's difficult to walk at night.

778
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:15,555
Ling, you'd go first.

779
01:06:15,680 --> 01:06:19,992
I can't see you.
I cannot hurt your heart.

780
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:24,072
I'll accompany Wah's students
to go at dawn.

My take:
It's difficult to walk at night.
Ling, you should go now.
When you're gone my feelings
for you will die.
I'll go with Wah's students.
We'll leave at dawn.
(using some of the dub here)

Mei Ah:
See Optimum
_______

801
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:21,152
No matter what I'll be changed to,
I won't forget you.

802
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:27,553
What a beautiful world.

803
01:08:28,800 --> 01:08:33,157
Making heroes compete for the world.

804
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:38,712
You understand now?

805
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:42,351
Why don't I sleep with you...

My take:

No matter how I change,
I won't forget you.
Where is the world we used to know?
Where's my hero whom I used to hold?
Now you understand...
...why I couldn't sleep with you.
(Using some dub)

Mei Ah:
See Optimum exept last line:
Why don't I sleep with you...
______

1014
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:58,078
Ling! If your next generation
can't stand the martial arts temptation

1015
01:27:58,200 --> 01:28:01,749
and leave you to be the swordsman again,
how can you stop them?

1016
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:05,430
Next generation?
I'd never dream of it.

1017
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:10,396
Swordsman! Where there are people,
there are feuds.

1018
01:28:10,520 --> 01:28:12,795
If there is feud,
there is another troubled world.

1019
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:16,151
Eventually, man is troublesome.
How can you claim you want peace?

My take:
Ling! If the generation after you
can't stand the martial arts temptation
and leave you to be swordsmen again,
how can you stop them?
Next generation?
I had never thought of that.
Swordsman! Where there are people,
there is conflict.
If there is conflict,
then there is war.
In the end, man seeks conflict.
How can you claim you want peace?
(using some dub again)

Mei Ah:
See optimum for almost the same wording to the first few subs.

Swordsman! Once there is people,
once there is feud.
With feud,
there is another troubled world.
Eventually, man is troublesome.
How can you claim you want peace?


I could go on. I've made at least 150 changes in the subs. From missing letters to some totally incomprehensible wording. I only used the dub when the subs didn't make sense. If the dub says roughly the same thing that the subs "might" mean I used it.

I guess I'm a fan of the movie and I really want a subtitle that is as clear as possible.

Mabye someone will actually make a real translation for the movie when (if) the new Weinstein company Dragon Dynasty or something decides to release it in a good edition. I don't think the people at Optimum made much translation themselves.

ericf

[Markgway]

I've heard that Mei Ah produced TWO subtitle tracks for their remastered DVDs; one for the first pressing and then another used for later pressings. It's possible Optimum just used the better of the two as they don't seem to have created their own translation...? If Optimum had the character would be Invincible Asia.

[bradavon]

I've heard that Mei Ah produced TWO subtitle tracks for their remastered DVDs; one for the first pressing and then another used for later pressings.

WTF??? Why?

This does make it really tricky when buying the DVD. Are they known to be very different?

If Optimum had the character would be Invincible Asia.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.

Fingers crossed I won't mind the Mei Ah subs. I'm not so bothered about subs for martial arts films I don't consider them to be of the highest art.

[Markgway]

WTF??? Why? This does make it really tricky when buying the DVD. Are they known to be very different?

Not sure why? It's just what I read. I don't know how you can tell them apart?