Seven Samurai - 3 Disc Edition - 5/9/2006

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 01 Nov 2006, 18:33

Never apologise man

no need.

I need to watch all the extras for Seveen Samurai, I did the commentaries and the new one osnt very good, its patronising and not worth your time. The old classic one was far, far better.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 03 Nov 2006, 20:11

I just saw the first half of this film. Bloody superb so far but the subs are hilarious. A 16th century Samurai saying...

"I can't sleep in the house, those guys are crampin my style."

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Nov 2006, 20:16

Does he really say that?
Is all the speech modern or is the translation decent overall? Maybe they wanted something that flowed better for a modern audience and didn't sound so stagey.

I'm sure 16th century Japan had its own slang/way of speaking.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 03 Nov 2006, 20:28

I have sen a lot of debate about what is acctually spoken in Kurasawa Samurai films, basically many people disagree and really you will never get a perfect translation that everyone agrees on.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 04 Nov 2006, 00:44

EvaUnit02 wrote:A shit movie starring Michael Keaton and a ghostly phenomena where supposedly the dead communicate with the living via radio.

LOL oops I meant:

1. White Balance.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 04 Nov 2006, 09:35

grim_tales wrote: Maybe they wanted something that flowed better for a modern audience and didn't sound so stagey.

That's it I think.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 04 Nov 2006, 14:31

bradavon wrote:
EvaUnit02 wrote:A shit movie starring Michael Keaton and a ghostly phenomena where supposedly the dead communicate with the living via radio.
LOL oops I meant:

1. White Balance.

No you mean White Noise.

Noise in the audio track.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 04 Nov 2006, 15:18

No I mean White Balance Mr. Digital Camera Man??? 8)

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 04 Nov 2006, 15:23

You dont get white balance on an audio track man! why would there be white balance on an audio track? there wouldnt as thats not what I am on about.

I was talking about white noise in the soundtrack.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 04 Nov 2006, 15:43

You said audio track I didn't.

I said "Off topic what's white noise" but should've said "white balance. I didn't even know you were talking about noise in the soundtrack.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 04 Nov 2006, 15:56

no wonder. I have talked about White noise on this Sevene Samurai dvd and this has all now went missing! I posted on this thread, all posts refering to it are now gone.

I talked about the hidous white noise on the new Seven Samurai soundtrack basically, now its all missing.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 04 Nov 2006, 16:00

all posts refering to it are now gone.

Wasn't me...

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 04 Nov 2006, 16:04

I wouldnt blame anyone

hey it happens on many forums, things happen and its never explained, bugs I guess

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 04 Nov 2006, 16:06

I can't find your comments either but I suspect they're still there.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 07 Nov 2006, 23:26

I watched the new R1 and the Korean release today. The Korean release has more detail and is sharper thanks to Criterions love of going overboard with their restoration nonsense, but overall the Crit does look better. It's cleaner, clearer and has better contrast. The audio is better too.
Subtitles... Well the new Criterion ones are AWFUL. It isn't just the modernisation it's the outright mistranslation, they are dubtitles from some God awful English track that was never made. The previous Criterion subtitles featured on the Korean disc have a more accurate translation but still deviate a lot. Real shame.
The old commentary also > the new ones.

jimmyscab · Post by **jimmyscab** » 08 Nov 2006, 07:12

I think I will stick with the original Criterion.

Popped it in the day while trying to decide, it looks a mess, but the dirty print has a certain charm.

Are the subs on the new Criterion the same as the old one?

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 08 Nov 2006, 10:23

No, its a new translation.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 08 Nov 2006, 10:29

Lourdes wrote:Subtitles... Well the new Criterion ones are AWFUL. It isn't just the modernisation it's the outright mistranslation, they are dubtitles from some God awful English track that was never made. The previous Criterion subtitles featured on the Korean disc have a more accurate translation but still deviate a lot. Real shame.

See, this is something I just don't get, why would Criterion change the subtitles if the the original subtitles were a perfectly accurate translation of the original dialogue? I mean, it's not like these guys don't put any intelligent care and consideration into their releases.

IIRC you don't speak Japanese do you Lourdes, does that mean you've found a thread somewhere that goes into the mistakes in the new translation? Should be an interesting read, and one that should be rammed down Criterion's throat at the next HTF group chat they set up.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 08 Nov 2006, 10:33

A good translation is a good translation, a good translation may not be a literal translation. The Japanese spoken in Seven samurai isn't modern Japanese, even my Japanese friends have said its hard to understand.
My guess is maybe the original subs felt "stagey" (what I remember of them). Though I havent sampled the new translation.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 08 Nov 2006, 10:40

I knew I remembered a brief news snippet on the re-translating of Seven Samurai:

In a recent article, Japanese-film subtitler Linda Hoaglund mentions that "this spring, Criterion commissioned me to re-subtitle seven of Kurosawa Akira's classics: Seven Samurai, Ikiru, Throne of Blood, Stray Dog, The Bad Sleep Well, Drunken Angels and I Live in Fear. The new subtitles, laser-printed onto newly restored prints for a traveling retrospective of Kurosawa films starring Mifune Toshiro, are scheduled for release on DVD."

Editted from this article:

The re-release will feature the first new prints of the full-length feature in decades, including completely new subtitles by renowned Japanese film authority and translator Linda Hoaglund.

"We are honored to be entrusted with this incredible collection of Kurosawa's masterpieces," said John Vanco of Cowboy Pictures. "In this era of video and digital media, it's important that this filmmaker in particular is appreciated through celluloid, and that is now possible on a national scale due to these new and newly subtitled prints. We expect the re-release of "The Seven Samurai" and our tour of the other great Kurosawas to be the film event of the year." "Thanks to new perspectives regarding the translation of Kurosawa's scripts, we can finally appreciate his masterful grasp of language in relation to portraits of the passionate, humorous, and tragic characters who populate his films," said translator Linda Hoaglund. "Audiences who rely on English translation for Kurosawa's films will experience them all over again as if it were the first time."

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 08 Nov 2006, 11:16

Back when Seven Samurai had its newly translated theatrical run in the states, the official blurb stated:

Voted in the 1979 Kinema Jumpo critics’ poll as the Best Japanese Film ever. New subtitles by Linda Hoaglund capture the rawness of the language for the first time.

Ok, going by Linda Hoaglund's Website she's a pretty ubiquitous Japanese film translator - chances are if you own more than one r2j DVD you own one of her translations - Among numerous other films, she has done translations for the films of Kiyoshi Kuroawa, Hirokazu Koreeda, Shinji Aoyama, Shinobu Yamaguchi, Kinji Fukusaku, Junji Sakamoto, and SABU. She's also done a few Ghibli films: Spirited Away, Laputa, My Neighbours the Yamadas, Nausicaa, Howl's Moving Castle.

There's an interview for the New York Times on her site about the new Seven Samurai translation, here's the highlights:

When the previous subtitles were written, Ms. Hoaglund explained over an iced cofee in a Manhattan cafe, "Japan and the U.S. were in a different relationship, Japan having just lost the war. In general, the Japanese gentleman who translated them, under contract to the studios, had perhaps lived abroad for a year, probably spoke British English, and they wanted to present a proper Japan. You can immediately tell that they don't have a native grasp of the language. And I don't believe that you can subtitle unless you are a native speaker of the language you are subtitling into"

As an example of her work, Ms. Hoaglund cited her rendering of the expository title that opens "The Seven Samurai": "During the civil wars, an endless cycle of conflict left the country overrun with bandits. Peaceable folk lived in terror of the thunder of approaching hooves."

"The beauty of that moment is that at the second the text disappears, what do you hear but the thunder of approaching hooves," Ms. Hoaglund said. "Kurosawa left nothing to chance. But the original subtitle said something like 'the farmers lived in fear.' My Personal reaction was that the thunder was more thunderous because it's a more visceral evocation. The sound means something."

So, supposedly the dialogue in Seven Samurai is more expressive and coarser than the original subtitles express. Does the new subtitles capture this though? I can't say as I don't own the Criterion yet.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 08 Nov 2006, 11:21

Cool, they got "Drunken Angel", one of my favourite films ever.

Shingster · Post by **Shingster** » 08 Nov 2006, 11:24

That was for theatrical distribution LD, I can't say whether they have the DVD distribution rights or not for every title listed there - although they obviously have for most of them, so the signs should be good.

thelostdragon · Post by **thelostdragon** » 08 Nov 2006, 11:27

I see. I mean I have the German disc which is fine anyway. I was just happy, because usually Criterion has cool extras. But then again I wouldn't know if I should upgrade with such an expensive Criterion disc only for the extras.

BiscLimpkit · Post by **BiscLimpkit** » 08 Nov 2006, 18:09

See this Linda person... she sounds hot. Are there any recent photos of her? Thanks.