Eastern Condors: R1Fox vs R2HKL vs R2FR

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 12 Dec 2006, 00:02

Note1: The HKL is cut by about 10 seconds (animal cruelty).
Note2: The Fox's 5.1 soundtrack is completely out-of-sync and the dialog track is muffled. Amazingly, HKL's soundtrack is much cleaner.

Fox:

R2FR:

HKL:

Fox:

R2FR:

HKL:

Fox:

R2FR:

HKL:

Fox:

R2FR:

HKL:

Fox:

R2FR:

HKL:

Same as usual for the HKL (Washed-out Media Asia print and horizontal stretching), same as usual for the Fox (sharp FS remaster but with altered colours).

The Fox obviously wins in the picture department, but it has terrible subtitles and crappy sound.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Dec 2006, 00:52

The HKL does look a right mess but in reality on a TV screen I doubt it will look this bad (other HKLs don't, even of that age). I'm also sure I personally wouldn't notice the stretching (I've yet to, including PS).

That subtitle example, what do the first subs mean? They don't make any sense, is it part of a sentence? Sure they're dubtitles but I'd expect them to make sense. Agreed dubtitles aren't nice but I can live with them for such films (I opted for HK 1941 over the HKL despite it's dubtitles).

tom2681 wrote:Note2: The Fox's 5.1 soundtrack is completely out-of-sync and the dialog track is muffled. Amazingly, HKL's soundtrack is much cleaner.

By completely do you mean the entire film?

I'm really unsure of which one to go for, the Fox does look gorgeous but if it's noticeably out of sync (so not slight which I doubt I'd notice). Ah bollocks!!!

I guess it must be really bad if you guys would prefer to watch an cut version.

Hung and Tom aside has anyone else noticed the R1 is out of sync by up to half a second at times? I wonder if the Korean DVD (very similar to R1) really is in Sync???

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 12 Dec 2006, 01:11

what do the first subs mean? They don't make any sense, is it part of a sentence?

HKL:
-Brother...
-Hell, brother, we're dying here one by one, soon it will be our turn.
I quit, Lieutenant ! I'd rather go back to jail.

Fox:
-Benny, don't !
-Be quiet ! Two of us are dead, I don't want to be the next one !
Colonel, i've had it ! It was a damn sight safer back in my prison cell !
Screw your mission !

I've been checking the Fox disc, and it sounds like the sync issue is pretty random.
In several scenes, the sound effects are almost one second late, even though the dialog track is only 2 tenths of a second late.

I've yet to come across a scene where the sound is in sync, though.

RickyTheDragonSteamboat · Post by **RickyTheDragonSteamboat** » 12 Dec 2006, 01:13

I have the Spectrum R3 Korean version of this and the English subs seem to be identical (dubtitles???). My old Universe DVD had better subs! As for the sound, it's pretty bad. The music and the gunshots seemed a bit muffled and the dialog is out of synch for some parts. They also layered some new sound effects over the old ones like bullet hits and such. But the picture quality is great.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Dec 2006, 01:19

What on earth is a sight safer?

I've yet to come across a scene where the sound is in sync, though.

. Thanks.

1 Second is pretty damn conclusive (in me noticing it). It will have to be the HKL then, it's not worth the "risk" in case I do notice it.

RickyTheDragonSteamboat wrote:As for the sound, it's pretty bad. The music and the gunshots seemed a bit muffled and the dialog is out of synch for some parts.

I guess the Spectrum is out of sync too then

. Funny not everyone can notice it. It tends to work this way I guess.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 12 Dec 2006, 01:25

It was a damn sight safer = It was a lot safer
It's an american expression, no ?

@Brad:
I honestly can't imagine how someone could NOT notice a one second delay.
Seriously, who writes these reviews ? :x

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Dec 2006, 01:32

I was thinking the same, people I suspect who only sampled the DVD. You can usually rely on DVD Talk to write decent reviews too.

Oh - Damn, sight safer. Fine they're dubtitles but punctuation is there for a bloody reason :shock: . Actually re-reading it it does make sense without the comma, just. It's British too.

I thought "Sight Safer" was some militarily lingo

(which of course makes no sense).

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 12 Dec 2006, 01:51

There should be no comma before sight safer. Tom was correct.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 12 Dec 2006, 01:52

The Fox image is so much nicer. I really hope Joy Sales don't screw this one up. I need to upgrade my Universe.

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 12 Dec 2006, 01:52

Brad, 'a damn, sight safer' does not make sense. The subtitles make sense how they are. I used to own the Fox, but didn't notice any sound synch issue strangely enough. I do notice the stretching on the HKL discs, by the way.

chenlung · Post by **chenlung** » 12 Dec 2006, 02:06

HKL is cut by 22 seconds actually (even more if you consider the 'Golden Harvest' logo and maybe even a copyright disclaimer after the credits are finished).

Video: Fox.
Audio: Universe or Megastar (?).
Subtitles: HKL.
Extras: HKL.

How do you know the Fox DVD has altered colours?

HKL seems to have a mono upmix as it's muffled at certain points whilst sounding refreshing at others (?).

Fox will have undoubtedly presented the original trailer correctly (and better quality) compared to HKL who wrongly telecined it with the 2:35:1 squished into 1:78:1 (a common mistake in a few of their earlier lot).

"Damn sight safer" is an expression I've heard my family say (Scottish) so I guess it isn't really an issue of making sense, just an expression

. Although, I would use something different in this case to be as neutral as possible (not too formal or casual - just a 'healthy balance')

.

EvaUnit02 · Post by **EvaUnit02** » 12 Dec 2006, 03:19

chenlung wrote:Fox will have undoubtedly presented the original trailer correctly (and better quality) compared to HKL who wrongly telecined it with the 2:35:1 squished into 1:78:1 (a common mistake in a few of their earlier lot).

It's just a trailer, who cares? Better than the now common Hollywood major studio practice of not including the trailer period on their DVDs (eg Universal).

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 12 Dec 2006, 13:32

Eva wrote:It's just a trailer, who cares?

We do.

The Eastern Condors trailer is special. It contains several unused bits of film, and a short clip of the cast singing the movie's theme song.
That's the only reason why I'm not throwing the Fox disc away.

HungFist · Post by **HungFist** » 12 Dec 2006, 13:48

Brad, I suggest you wait a little because this film is on Joy Sales remaster list. Chances of getting the original mono in decent form are pretty good, and even if they screw up (like often lately) they should at least fix the sync problem.

I think HK Video will get their disc released before 2010 as well

(you got that on per-order, Tom?)

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 12 Dec 2006, 14:08

bradavon wrote:What on earth is a sight safer?

I've yet to come across a scene where the sound is in sync, though.
. Thanks.

1 Second is pretty damn conclusive (in me noticing it). It will have to be the HKL then, it's not worth the "risk" in case I do notice it.

RickyTheDragonSteamboat wrote:As for the sound, it's pretty bad. The music and the gunshots seemed a bit muffled and the dialog is out of synch for some parts.
I guess the Spectrum is out of sync too then . Funny not everyone can notice it. It tends to work this way I guess.

Brad don't you know the expression "damn sight... (whatever)" ie safer, better etc?

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 12 Dec 2006, 16:15

Just get the HKL its awsome.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 12 Dec 2006, 17:03

How can the HKL be "awesome". Didn't you see the screencaps posted above?

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 12 Dec 2006, 17:13

Because the sound is out on the Region 1, making it pointless, pathetic and worthless in the extreme. If the sound was fine then ok, but its not sadly

RickyTheDragonSteamboat · Post by **RickyTheDragonSteamboat** » 12 Dec 2006, 17:40

Every version of Eastern Condors that I've seen seems to have one problem or the other so I don't really care anymore. At least the Fox version presents it beautifully and uncut.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 12 Dec 2006, 17:52

Cut status doesnt matter at all when its nasty violoence agaisnt animals. I have no need in my life to such things, ever. HKL wins hands down really.

Still someone may issue the film with great picture and sound in sinc, that would be nice. One day!

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 12 Dec 2006, 18:12

The cut to the HKL would be OK if the picture and audio were top-notch but they ain't. Maybe that makes the HKL the best of a poor bunch. But awesome? Definately not.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Dec 2006, 19:50

gasteropod wrote:I used to own the Fox, but didn't notice any sound synch issue strangely enough.

Confuse me more why don't you

chenlung wrote:Audio: Universe or Megastar (?).

Are they both Remastered DD1.0/2.0 or left as is? If not I wouldn't say they're immediately the winners.

chenlung wrote:HKL seems to have a mono upmix as it's muffled at certain points whilst sounding refreshing at others (?).

Not being sarcastic but what else could it be?

tom2681 wrote:That's the only reason why I'm not throwing the Fox disc away.

Surely there are others way to keep a trailer?

grim_tales wrote:Brad don't you know the expression "damn sight... (whatever)" ie safer, better etc?

You're the fourth person to correct me (so sorry you're the last) after it was already nicely dealt with by Tom and I.

I already said it makes sense in the subs so don't even really understand why people are repeating what I said.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Dec 2006, 19:52

Markgway wrote:The Fox image is so much nicer. I really hope Joy Sales don't screw this one up. I need to upgrade my Universe.

Are they releasing it? Where are you sourcing all this info?

I suspect it will be a Fox port (or probably the other way around) but can wait if a new DVD is coming.

HungFist wrote:Brad, I suggest you wait a little because this film is on Joy Sales remaster list. Chances of getting the original mono in decent form are pretty good, and even if they screw up (like often lately) they should at least fix the sync problem.

Thanks. Yep agreed I should wait. I have ordered enough really at HKL too.

All I want is the Fox picture, in sync and cleaned up Original Mono/Stereo, decent subtitles and an in sync 5.1 too (so I can compare and choose). Extras I'm not overly bothered about. I'd prefer it uncut but that doesn't hugely bother me either.

Where are you guys sourcing this info?

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 12 Dec 2006, 21:02

interesting joysales thread here Brad
http://www.dvdmaniacs.net/forums/showth ... ge=1&pp=15

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 12 Dec 2006, 21:20

Thanks Salty, it's appreciated.