Broken Arrow: R2FR DVD vs French Blu-Ray

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 Jun 2008, 12:30

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 Jun 2008, 12:40

Thanks Tom. You didn't need to add the names, but thanks though.

The BD is rubbish and only acceptable as it beats the DVD.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 Jun 2008, 13:31

I did it for you.
So you could avoid the wide shots and the credits.

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 19 Jun 2008, 15:02

That BD is not worth buying.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 Jun 2008, 15:26

Yeah, but it is when you compare it to the DVD.
Unless you would rather wait for a remaster (one day, maybe?)

IronMonkey · Post by **IronMonkey** » 19 Jun 2008, 15:51

I was meaning its not worth buying as an upgrade from the DVD...

It hardly looks any better!

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 19 Jun 2008, 16:33

The BD is an improvement but not by a great deal. Bit disappointing really.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 19 Jun 2008, 17:27

Some of them shots are superb compared to the dvd, esspecially the very last image which is far better. Others not so much, but still no compression and blocking alone makes it better for me, then add in the shit edge enhancement on the standard dvd and its poor. I still have the Region 1 first release on dvd, it is not even anamorphic!

But Whats with the odd vertical lines on the BR? does that show up as vertical stepping when watching the film?! as that would be bad and maybe unwatchable like the shitfest Warner transfers with the strange vertical jaggiess like The Fugitive! which is pretty much the worst transfer on HD for me.

I will be getting the film when its cheap on BR, as frankly its never going to get any better than that. Most reviewers say posative things abaout he transfer as well, maybe the shots above are just some lesser scenes? as some good reviewers gave it hight marks picture wise.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 Jun 2008, 17:56

Are you talking about the vertical lines in the clouds (cap N°5)?
It looks like the kind of banding you get with some LCD videoprojectors.
Haven't seen it in motion yet.

Romero wrote:but still no compression and blocking

Your eyes are shit, man. Look at the second cap.

The whole background behind Slater is "Macroblock City".

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 19 Jun 2008, 18:04

The vertical lines are in the clouds yes

they are also in all the other images to varying visability, look at the eyes of people on the last cap small lines strange, very liney transfer? or PC based problem?

Yup I can see that tiny blocking now, the sun was on my screen

makes images look better than they are, its not as serious as others thats for sure, but I guess it does depend on how much it moves about as they are not Big chunky blocks.

captainjoe · Post by **captainjoe** » 19 Jun 2008, 18:41

I own the USA Blu-ray and yeah it's not that great of a disc. I always had the R1 non-anamorphic disc so for me it was worth it but it could and should have been way better.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 19 Jun 2008, 18:54

Ahh just checked on a few forums the vertical lines are talked about by a fair few people and many people hate them and got rid of it as its unwatchable to some people. Bollcoks!

But some say set it to 720 and they disapear for some (not all) people! strange!

But vertical lines is a odd thing.

If we can see it in caps, then obviously its part of the transfer? or is that not so, could be player related?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 Jun 2008, 19:15

tom2681 wrote:I did it for you.
So you could avoid the wide shots and the credits.

I reckoned so, thanks.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 19 Jun 2008, 19:42

Mmmm guess the only way to know if anyone would see it on their screen is to try it

EDIT
Toms posts gone!

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 Jun 2008, 19:45

@Yeah, sorry. I replaced my post with this one.

Romero wrote:some say set it to 720 and they disapear for some (not all) people

That one I can explain.
It's all part of the resizing algorithm.

Now you see 'em:

And now you don't:

It all depends on what kind of resizing method you use.
Regarding the 1920x1080 caps, it has to do with how your monitor deals with high-frequency detail (or whatever you call it).

But the lines are there, that's for sure.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 19 Jun 2008, 19:50

Ohh thanks, nice to learn something I did not know

That is quite some difference.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 Jun 2008, 19:52

Some displays will actually hide those lines completely, while others will make them stand out.
Of course it'd be better if those lines weren't there in the first place.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 Jun 2008, 20:02

What do the two captures show us? I cannot see lines in one of them, why?

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 19 Jun 2008, 20:14

Well I set my screen to 1080 (I forgot I changed it from a lower setting) the difference full 1080 on my screen for that last cap is massive, if the entire transfer was as good as that, well it would be one hell of any upgrade. From the other caps, it aint.

I dont see them lines like them smaller images you posted, they are very fine on my screen, odd looking things. Your image comparison line thingie shows them a good thickness, even more distracing that if I saw them that big.

I think Broken Arrow is one of Woos best films still, I love the film. Sadly the best versions the opened up version at 1.85.1 which was on TV, hell I even liked the framing of the Fullscreen video more than the widescreen dvd version

overcropped for me.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 Jun 2008, 20:17

@Brad:
Seriously? You can't see the huge vertical banding in the first one? That's incredible.
You should be seeing about 20 vertical bands in those clouds. It should be grey-white-grey-white-grey...

If you can't, it means that your display is hiding those lines.
Try increasing the size of the first picture by 200%. It should become even more noticeable.

Here, I'll do it for you:
https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... ANDING.jpg

On my display (and on Romero's), the difference is already huge at 100%.

saltysam · Post by **saltysam** » 19 Jun 2008, 20:35

i'll buy the BD when it's £7-£8. not paying Fox premium for this.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 Jun 2008, 20:39

@ Tom: Of course I can

. I said "I cannot see lines in one of them"

.

I am asking what are you illustrating? You've not said how the two differ, except for lines obviously. Does that make sense? Is one from 1280x720 and 1920x1080? For example.

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 19 Jun 2008, 20:48

Oh, I thought you were talking about both of the last two pics I posted. That would've been weird.

Brad wrote:I am asking what are you illustrating?

It's simple:
The BD transfer has thin vertical lines everywhere. They're mostly visible in caps N°5 and 6.
Those lines can either become more visible or even disappear completely when you downscale the screencaps.

It's all about the resizing method.
The first cap I posted was downscaled to 1024x576 using a very simple algorithm ("Nearest neighbour", I think).
The second one was downscaled to 1024x576 using "bicubic".

Different resizing methods: different results.

My point is:
When you're watching the film on a 1280x or a 1024x display, you're at the mercy of your display's resizing method.

Maybe Broken Arrow will look like this on your TV:

Or maybe it'll look like this:

That explains why some people like this transfer while others can't stand it.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 19 Jun 2008, 21:00

Ah, understood. Thanks Tom.

The first cap I posted was downscaled to 1024x576 using a very simple algorithm ("Nearest neighbour", I think).
The second one was downscaled to 1024x576 using "bicubic".

I know all about that. Nearest Neighbour is shit. I always use Bicubic.

captainjoe · Post by **captainjoe** » 19 Jun 2008, 22:29

My TV doesn't show the lines at all so must be the second method my TV uses