Fist in Japan

[HungFist]

Snow and ice

[HungFist]

This is pretty inventive...

Man Arrested For Lurking In Street Gutter And Looking Up Women’s Skirts
- http://www.japancrush.com/2013/stories/ ... kirts.html



Also, if you're in a need of some cash...

Ninja Wanted For Part-Time Job, No Experience Necessary
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/0 ... 16910.html

[HungFist]

Haha. Though in all honestly, life is not all ninjas and maids in Japan either. Except maybe if you live in Akiba.

Speaking of which, I was in Tokyo the other weekend, on my way to Kamata to see Red Peony Gambler on 35mm, and at Akiba station a girl carrying a teddy bear bigger than herself enterted the train.


(sorry for pic quality, had to snap it tosatsu style)

Scenes from the Trains of Japan: Pigeons, Gas Masks, and Sleeping, Oh the Sleeping
http://en.rocketnews24.com/2012/10/29/s ... -sleeping/

[HungFist]

Interesting bit of news via Japan smut portal...

Saitama hostess club employed 12-year-old girl
- http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/04/03 ... -old-girl/

"... the club used the Smartphone app LINE to recruit female staff members seeking cash in exchange for work in the mizushobai trade, or nighttime entertainment biz."

"...The bar opens at 8:00 p.m. and closes at 6:00 a.m. This girl would work a few hours from the opening."

Child abuse is hardly news if we look at the third world. What makes this case very interesting is we've got a seemingly "normal" elementary school kid in a highly developed country who wasn't so much a victim of abuse, but apparently seeked a job in the nightlife entertainment with her iphone application by herself.

This kind of development has been evident in Japan for decades. Japan's had a problem with school girl prostitution and paid dates for a long time, but the girls have been becoming increasingly independent. While in the 80's they were employed by (probably yakuza driven) telephone clubs, in the late 90's they stated using cellphones, and eventually internet sites to connect them with the customers. The traditional role of the pimp is decreasing, even disappearing in some cases, and now we've got 12 year olds applying for nigh life jobs on their own initiative.

I friend of mine once said: "Japanese schoolgirls know their value". I'm not sure which is more scary - that customers value 12 year olds, or that 12 year old very well know their own value and try to capitalize on it.

[Markgway]

Wouldn't the nightclub have checked her ID before employment?

She couldn't have looked 18, could she?

[HungFist]

Wouldn't the nightclub have checked her ID before employment?

She couldn't have looked 18, could she?

They should have, but obviously they didn't. They wanted a young girl, though apparently they didn't quite realize exactly how young she was...

The news says that you have to be 15 "in order to serve customers" but what she was doing for the club - attracting customers with her young looks, even if that was all she did - is obviously not very different from the "school girl walks" and other stuff that has been outlawed from under 18 year olds based on the (indirect) sexual appeal of it...

There's a constant battle between the police/lawmakers and lolicon/schoolgirl fetish services, especially in the Akihabara district in Tokyo. They keep coming up with new services involving high school girls, which always get outlawed after a few months, only for a new modification to appear that hasn't yet been addressed in the law.

[HungFist]

Speaking of Akihabara, I dropped by earlier this week. A few photos:









Unfortunately I couldn't spot any high school girls walking with sleazy businessmen... just maids on the streets.

[Masterofoneinchpunch]

While I would prefer a sportscar with that paint job (or maybe something with Mifune Toshiro), I still would not mind to drive something like that around.

[HungFist]

Not my photo, but an amazing pic from Nagano. Snow + cherry blossom



- https://twitter.com/hiramekik/status/45 ... 12/photo/1

[HungFist]

I heard an interesting bit of "fashion" trivia from my gf today. It's become somewhat popular among Japanese university age girls to go to Disneyland together wearing their old high school uniforms.

This doesn't really surprise me at all. I've been trying to correct some Western misunderstandings about the whole school uniform thing being only about exploitation of young girls. That side exists too - to a remarkable extent I might add - but many fail to understand Japanese girls really love school uniforms. They think the uniforms are cute, beautiful, and convenient. They love wearing them so much that when they graduate high school they often feel sad about not being able to wear them anymore. This is why some of them choose to use the opportunity to run to Disneyland (where they won't run into relatives or other people who recognize them) with friends and re-live some of the fun they had back in the good old days. As they grow older, the school uniform becomes a nostalgic reminder and symbol of the school days and childhood. The school uniform really is a remarkable part of Japanese pop culture and fashion, and the majority of it doesn't have anything to do with dirty old men drooling after school girls.

[HungFist]

Here's an old (2008) article, but still a very interesting read

Ninjashot photography (upskirt photography):
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2008/06/29 ... otography/

And an update on the topic:
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/04/18 ... artphones/

Unrelated news about Akiba and walking dates:
http://www.tokyoreporter.com/2014/04/19 ... aid-cafes/

This article kinda suggests many/all maid cafes operate as fronts for walking dates or even prostitution (or do it as a side business). However, maid cafes are mainstream entertainment visited by many normal people, including girls, who would never buy sexual services. I know many girls in my university, as well as some middle aged women, who really want to go to maid cafe because of the fun/silliness of it. It's not some hentai thing at all, but rather a geekier part of the Japanese kawaii/cuteness culture.

Of course, that doesn't mean some of the maid cafes aren't offering extra services. Some certainly seem to be. But I'd like to see some research on how many of them actually do that.

[Tenchu1998]

So... Have you attended a Kinbaku show, yet?

I could never make it in Japan, myself. Being a Scandinavian, I need my egalitarian, modern social liberal society. The vertical, hierarchical society of Japan would probably end up getting me on the bottom, all poor and frozen out. I'd end up committing suicide, like so many other people who get shoved out of the societal order. It can be very tough to live there, from what I have read, and some people I've talked to.

But, from a distance, of course everybody respect, and admire, Japanese culture. It's a thrill to observe it from a distance, for sure! The dedication and the hard work the Japanese put into their country, I find to be admirable. At the same time, there is so much weird shit going on there. I usually put it as, "Japan is a country of wondrous beauty and the lowest of perversions." They got everything in Japan - culturally, it's one of the richest countries in the world. The Japanese are some of the most intelligent people in the world; a lot of Nobel Prize winners; authors, philosophers and great movie makers, etc. etc. The discipline and spiritual force of Yukio Mishima-inspired Samurai Warriors, living out their lives to serve the homeland of the sun. etc. etc. It's marvelous. Yet, there is also the modern degeneracy, and all these goofy things you've brought up in this thread, that I can't quite get my head around.

Well, keep updating! It's interesting to read about your experiences.

[HungFist]

So... Have you attended a Kinbaku show, yet?

No, not yet

I have eaten sushi from a naked woman, though

(well, the sushi was handed to me and I couldn't refuse... I didn't actually pick it up myself)

I could never make it in Japan, myself. Being a Scandinavian, I need my egalitarian, modern social liberal society.

Well, I'm Scandinavian too. I guess it comes down to how much you like high school girls

We come from the most equal and lowest power distance societies in the world, and in comparison Japan can be quite different indeed. You can't survive here without bowing down to those who (imagine) they are better than you. But Japan is not as bad as many other Asian countries, and the situation is getting kinda better. The positive outcome is that people, especially youngsters, tend to behave much better than our Scandinavian brats.

How "hard" life as a foreigner is really depends on what you're doing in Japan. If you're an exchange student, for example, everything is prepared for you and you don't have to expose yourself to many of the realities of Japanese society. The closer you get to living in Japan as an "ordinary citizen" the more you have to adapt to the Japanese style - which has its positives and negatives.

Well, keep updating! It's interesting to read about your experiences.

Thanks, I will

The spring has finally come. Cherry trees are starting to bloom again.

[Tenchu1998]

So, can I ask you a couple of questions?

How do the Japanese watch movies? I mean... Given the insane number of movies getting released in Japan, it must mean people are still attending the cinemas quite so often, no? So, do people attend movies straight after work, or more on holidays, or what? I mean, when do they find time?

Also: How important is Japanese cinema to the Japanese today? Is it as vital and alive as it was in the 1960's and 1970's, in terms of peoples' enthusiasm towards new movies?

What do people think of the more "Indie" movies like, say, Tsukamoto's 'Kotoko'? Cocco-san is pretty big in Japan, isn't she? I always thought that having a popular lead, would at least draw some audiences to see the movie.

How well does a movie such as 'Confessions' reflect modern Japanese society? I heard 'Confessions' was a pretty big hit in Japan - so, I wonder, how did people react to that movie?

[HungFist]

So, can I ask you a couple of questions?

Of course

How do the Japanese watch movies? I mean... Given the insane number of movies getting released in Japan, it must mean people are still attending the cinemas quite so often, no? So, do people attend movies straight after work, or more on holidays, or what? I mean, when do they find time?

A notable amount (more than half I'm sure) of the movie theater revenues come from female customers. That includes both students and housewives who have tons of free time (and there's a lot of them... it's still common in Japan that women retire once they get married). Men go to movies when they have free time: weekends, or late shows. Working hours aren't quite as bad anymore as they used to be, so most people can probably catch a film after work.

Also: How important is Japanese cinema to the Japanese today? Is it as vital and alive as it was in the 1960's and 1970's, in terms of peoples' enthusiasm towards new movies?

Cinema isn't doing all that well in Japan actually. Smaller theaters are closing down all the time. That being said, big multiplexes seem to be doing alright. The biggest hits are almost always trendy movies based on TV shows, anime, or manga, starring big idols, and often somewhat catered for feminine taste. It's become extremely commercial - and not all that great in artistic terms.

What do people think of the more "Indie" movies like, say, Tsukamoto's 'Kotoko'? Cocco-san is pretty big in Japan, isn't she? I always thought that having a popular lead, would at least draw some audiences to see the movie.

Directors like Tsukamoto have difficulties finding audience for their films. I guess Kotoko did alright, but when I went to see Tetsuo 3 in cinema on the last day of the first screening week in Sapporo (2 million people) there were like 5 people in the audience. There was a retrospective on his older films and some screenings had 2 or 3 people in them.

Same for other similar directors. Sabu's latest film Miss Zombie played in 3 or 4 theaters in Japan.

Of course, sometimes there's a hit. This year Love's Whirlpool (Ai no uzu) became major success after starting in just a few theaters. Within 2 months it spread to more than 60 screens.

How well does a movie such as 'Confessions' reflect modern Japanese society? I heard 'Confessions' was a pretty big hit in Japan - so, I wonder, how did people react to that movie?

It's fiction of course, but the themes are accurate. Bullying is a major problem in Japanese schools and Japanese society in general. It's because of the collectivism. You need to be just like everyone else to be accepted in a group... and if you're not, it's the end of the world. Most Japanese people can't do anything by themselves - and many of them do acknowledge it but can't change it.

I wasn't in Japan the year Confessions was released so I didn't really witness its impact first hand.

[Tenchu1998]

Thank you for your answers!

Please forgive me for being all over the place, or just asking somewhat dumb questions. I am just trying to break the ice a little, that's all. Of course, I don't expect you to answer everything in intricate detail. I appreciate your take on things based on your own experiences and the information you have obtained.

Umm, to switch the topic a little. I like watching Japanese female Shootboxing, and I am just curios if you have heard of it?
Do you know of Rena Kubota? Is she well-known in Japan?

Here is some silly Japanese program they did on her last year (I think): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK_4fPbHvt0

I like a lot of the female MMA fighters, such as Hisae Watanabe, Ayaka Hamasaki, Mizuki Inoue - the latter 2 are fighting in America, too.

But also Shootboxing stars such as Mio, Erika Kamimura, and the awesome Korean fighter, though fighting in Japan, Ham Seo Hee. Ham Seo Hee also fights MMA, but it seems it's common that some MMA fighters also do Shootboxing matches.

Here is Ham Seo Hee Fighting Ayaka Hamasaki: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0JKjWerQww

In case you are not too familiar with Shootboxing...
Last year's summary video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2y4WVsZAzg
Watch the final fight between Rena and Lorena "Lady Pitbull" Klijn (lol). It's a pretty silly setup, with them playing shitty music, posing and posturing - but I find the fight quite entertaining. Rena is very skilled, no doubt about it! She's quick, slick and technical! From what I understand, Rena is kind of a star in Japan.

Do you know how big Shootboxing and MMA is in Japan? Would you ever attend a match, if you had the chance?

[HungFist]

Can't say I know much about Shootboxing.

A friend of mine, Heka, might know more... he's now in Vietnam enjoying life. Let's see if I can get him to drop by again...

[Tenchu1998]

That's alright. I was just wondering if those fighters' popularity was felt in Japan in general.

If you are not into it, then of course these fighters won't be on your radar. It's the same with most sports, I suppose - although, it's true, bigger events such as soccer, and whatnot, do have players so famous that they are well known in society, even to people who are not interested in following the sport itself. The Shootboxing thing is promoting itself through TV and magazines - but of course, if you are not interested, you won't catch it, as it's not AS big as, say, international soccer.

[Heka]

Umm, to switch the topic a little. I like watching Japanese female Shootboxing, and I am just curios if you have heard of it?
Do you know of Rena Kubota? Is she well-known in Japan?

MMA and kickboxing are merely a shadow of their former selves after Pride fell in Japan. During my exchange in Japan, I trained in the MMA club of my University and they didn't know a single female fighter. I would say Shinya Aoki was the best know current fighter but most of the people only know former pride legends like Kazushi Sakuraba. Sakuraba btw is a real household name who is know by pretty much everybody and after he retired Japanese combat sports were never the same. When I was talking about combat sports with casual people who don't follow it they knew about Pride (MMA) and K1 (Kickboxing) and a few of their stars, mainly foreigners like Mark Hunt and Wanderlei Silva.

This Sakuraba highlight almost brings tears to my eyes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAAgt6mGXIY

As for the female fighters, there aren't that many promotions that have female fights. There are a lot of matches between the same girls. That said, Japan probably has a the second most female fighters after the USA. Japan also is home to the most successful female MMA fighter in the world, Megumi Fujii. She retired last year but she was a pioneer of female combat sports. Nobody has ever matched her 22 win streak in female MMA. Ayaka Hamasaki is one of Megumi's student's in the Tokyo based AACC (Abe Ani Combat Club) gym.

Megumi interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcc4ob51OQ0 (Eng sub)
Megumi highlights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGi3AM7ZJsY

Do you know how big Shootboxing and MMA is in Japan? Would you ever attend a match, if you had the chance?

At the moment fighting is a real fringe sport in Japan. There is no money in it and there are almost no pro trainers. The fighters train by their selves and acquire knowledge from other fighters. Traditional martial arts like Judo and Karate are ofc still big if you measure them by the amount of people practicing the sports but they aren't often televised and they too suffer from the lack of money and support for pro athletes.

As for attending a match. My two biggest regrets in my Japan exchange are not attending a MMA/kickboxing event and not going to see Perfume live. I'm sure I'll go back someday to fix those "mistakes" .

[Tenchu1998]

Thanks for the Sakuraba Highlight! I find it embarrassing to admit this, but this is the first time I've ever read about him. But, in my defense, I don't follow male MMA so much. I do like to watch them Koreans out of Busan, because they come from the same team/gym as Ham Seo Hee, and I love Ham Seo Hee!

And thank you for the Megumi Fujii Interview! I have known of Megumi Fujii, although I admit, again embarrassingly enough, that I wasn't aware of her importance! She's great! I will dig deeper and watch more of her fights! Wow, I see now that she fought Ham Seo Hee and defeated her by submission! Megumi Fujii is really good - true Japanese spirit in her. She's also very pretty.

[Tenchu1998]

Here is the Rena vs Hisae Watanabe Shootboxing match: https://ja-jp.facebook.com/video/video. ... 6239152730
Watanabe got her ass kicked by little Rena, despite talking about how she would teach that brat a lesson.
You see - you should never underestimate your younger generation! Kids can be very crafted!
And, yes, I will admit, I find Rena super hot here - she just moves so slickly, and she causes a lot of damage with those kicks.

Ham Seo Hee, debut match vs Watanabe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KZqU17jGHM
The Energy! You could tell Ham Seo Hee was a force to be reckoned with.

Ham Seo Hee loses to Miku: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fulfo-4-6Q

And so did Watanabe, when they fought in the title match:

1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OrU5fY8wOo
2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2j9nDsmrp4

Ham Seo Hee vs Ishioka Saori: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r96R2FTTvQU
Defeating her a 2nd time.

I have the Erika Kamimura vs Ham Seo Hee Shootboxing fight on my PC, but it's not online anywhere. That match was intense! Erika won the title, that year.

At the moment fighting is a real fringe sport in Japan. There is no money in it and there are almost no pro trainers. The fighters train by their selves and acquire knowledge from other fighters. Traditional martial arts like Judo and Karate are ofc still big if you measure them by the amount of people practicing the sports but they aren't often televised and they too suffer from the lack of money and support for pro athletes.

As for attending a match. My two biggest regrets in my Japan exchange are not attending a MMA/kickboxing event and not going to see Perfume live. I'm sure I'll go back someday to fix those "mistakes" .

This clings sad, to me. I thought it'd be bigger in Japan, given the amount of fighters that they got over there - especially the female ones! Someone has got to get to it and fix this problem.

I want to see Rena fight, if I were to visit Japan some day!

[Tenchu1998]

So, Hungfist! More questions!

What do you know about that weird, underground Hentai Entertainment of Superheroine movies?
Have you seen this stuff?

Look at this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5pgwN4oL5o
What the fuck?!?

And, they also have stuff like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw4g3qxcnTc
It's age restricted, so you'll have to log in to see it. But, what the fuck?!?

Plus, there seems to be tons of girls dressing up as Sailor Moon superheroine sadistic sex movies, and whatnot...

Where do you buy this stuff? Is it mostly online, or can you also get it in the sex shops?
What kind of people are usually into this stuff - have you stumbled upon such people?
Do you know how big the market is for this stuff?

[HungFist]

Mainstream superhero stuff is still relatively popular, so it's no wonder there's also AV dedicated to the same interest.

Japan has every imaginable fetish available, and they tend to be a bit odd. I think it's because Japan is, in some ways, a less open minded society than Western countries. The Japanese collectivism and social hierarchy forces people to play social roles in their everyday life. They need to dress just like everyone else, act just like everyone else, speak just like everyone else... It's called tatemae: the public behaviour, as opposed to honne, the real feelings.

Somewhat paradoxically, I think this is the very reason why Japan has come up with such a wide variety of strong counter-cultures. People feel oppressed in their daily lives. They feel they can't be their real selves. This feeds rebellion and gives birth to all kinds of odd subcultutes and fetishes.

In Western countries you could be as weird as you wanted and no one would give damn, which is kinda counter-encouraging. Furthermore, Western countries don't have the kind of censorship that Japan still has. Japanese AV is still optically censored - and it used to be much more so for decades. When you can't show everything, you need to come up with other (and possibly very weird) ways to attract viewers. So, when Dirty Sven in Sweden is just watching his HC porn at home, the Japanese fella is lying in a gutter trying to catch a panty shot.

And you know what? I have some strage appreciation for the guy lying all day in the gutter. He's much more amusing and interesting than Dirty Sven

(speaking of which, have you watched Love Exposure? If not, go and watch it. Then watch it again - twice! )

Even then, the market for super hero AV should be pretty small. I'm sure you can buy them online and sex shops, though I haven't been to a sex shop since 2008 when I accidentally walked into one because I couldn't read the Japanese writing on the door

I'm pretty sure you can find that stuff also in small mainstream video stores in Tokyo. Many people prefer using shops because that leaves no trace of them. Web shops and credit card bills are traceable.

I'll tell you more about just how mainstream Japanese AV and sex in Japan can be tomorrow.

[Tenchu1998]

In Western countries you could be as weird as you wanted and no one would give damn, which is kinda counter-encouraging. Furthermore, Western countries don't have the kind of censorship that Japan still has. Japanese AV is still optically censored - and it used to be much more so for decades. When you can't show everything, you need to come up with other (and possibly very weird) ways to attract viewers. So, when Dirty Sven in Sweden is just watching his HC porn at home, the Japanese fella is lying in a gutter trying to catch a panty shot.

And you know what? I have some strage appreciation for the guy lying all day in the gutter. He's much more amusing and interesting than Dirty Sven

(speaking of which, have you watched Love Exposure? If not, go and watch it. Then watch it again - twice! )

Yeah, of course I've seen Love Exposure. It's so popular, I think everybody have seen that movie. I know Sion Sono and his friend, whom the movie was partly based upon, went around and engaged in "the art" of Tosatsu. I remember seeing that interview, on the Japan Society YouTube channel, when Sono had a Q&A at the New York Asian Film Festival screening, and mentioned how they even got arrested for it at some point. Sono was very dedicated in his research back then, it seems. I think the movie is a funny take on that aspect of Japanese culture. Of course, in the movie, it is depicted in a really humoristic way - but, in principle, I personally can't understand the appeal of such a thing in real life. But, I think you touched upon it quite well, with your above post. I can relate to this, I guess - relate to that we are all different, and that sub-cultures and personal preferences alter us in various ways, depending on the dominant paradigm in a society.

Personally, I really hate HC Porn. I also find the Japanese HC porn I have seen, to be disgusting. It's not that I have a moral issue with it, or judge people who are into it; I just personally find it too unimaginative, dull and straight up vile, to be fascinated by that type of sex. I also can't stand this Western fast food approach to sex. Yeah, yeah, I am a romantic... I am usually concerned for the women, because some of that Japanese S&M porn I have seen, looks extremely brutal - especially this one video I saw once, where some guy poured hot wax (fake, or not? It was messed up, either way.) on this little Japanese woman and screwed her. I can't stand the Japanese women always having to be in these horribly submissive positions. Here is where I support female empowerment all the way! This is why I love those Japanese genre movies with the female warriors, and female MMA and all this stuff! Women are awesome, and I want to be with awesome women!

But, I will straight up admit this to you: I find Yukie Kawamura immensely attractive! The Japanese Gravure Modeling thing, as silly as it may be, has its nice qualities, imo. And Yukie Kawamura just looks like the most beautiful Mumin girl ever - she has that ultra pretty Mumin face. Just look at her: http://intervaluesk.com/k/kawamura328.jpg My, oh my... :love:I know the Gravure thing is more mainstream, and it's not really part of what we are talking about here. I know Kawamura is like a mainstream entertainer, appearing on television and doing commercials for games and various consumer products. She also did that 'Vampire Girl vs Frankenstein Girl' movie, and some other Digital Video stuff. She does a lot of silly stuff, I know. But, damn, she is cute. I just hope she is happy and well.

I don't mind women (I guess) getting paid vast sums of money to be beautiful, as long as they don't get exploited in some nasty manner. Of course, those ultra feminists would probably disagree with me here - but, that's another discussion. I mean... I bet the managers and producers, or whatever people, probably tell Yukie Kawamura how to act, so to develop some sort of image of her. I know it's a total artifice (to put it euphemistically). Yukie Kawamura goes into character, looks stunning doing them poses. I know, I know... But, she's really good at that stuff! I don't think there is any harm in it, if that is her talent.

And, again... If you take someone such as Aoi Sora - she has now become sort of a celebrity in Japan. She did modeling and pornography, at first, and then she appeared in Masashi Yamamoto's 'Three Points'. And now Aoi Sora is on Japanese Television, and she goes to China to promote stuff, etc. etc. So, I am also aware of the dynamics of the Japanese industry.

I know I sort of went off the topic. But, just wanted to tell you where I stand on this. Although, there is always more to say. But, let's leave it here, for now.

[HungFist]

Japanese girls are very submissive. It's because traditionally they've been in a very inequal position - and they still are - so they've come to accept it. Many of them can't even imagine any other way, and some are completely helpless alone. And many of them still take it as a "fact of life" that their boyfriends or husbands will cheat on them at some point and they should just forgive them cause it can't be helped. I've been telling many girls to respect themselves more and not take all that shit from the guys...

Of course, the coin always has two sides, and I really like the other side: Japanese girls are very polite, modest and shy in a cute way. And cuteness is the greatest thing it the world! I love strong, cool kick-ass girls in movies, but in real life I could never have imagined myself dating one (if you get what I mean).

This is why I've never been so into gravure models either. They're not kick ass like like pinky violence or karate stars (I love Etsuko Shihomi Miki Sugimoto, and Reiko Oshida... or Fumi Nikaido in Why Don't You Play in Hell for a more recent example) and not as innocent as "pure idols" (my own term in the lack of better word). My dream girls (right after my girlfriend who is cuter than any of them) would be early/mid 80's Hiroko Yakushimaru and Tomoyo Harada, Sukeban Deka III era Yui Asaka, Aki Maeda from 10 years ago... I used to be a big fan of Aya Ueto also 10 years ago.

That being said I have absolutely no problem with other people liking gravure idols. Just not exactly my thing because they fall somewhere between my interests.

AV isn't my thing either, but if we extend the question to movies, I don't have a problem with the treatment of women in Japanese cinema. Of course I'm a bit worried that if some dumbasses are actually infuenced by that, but as for me personally, I don't see any difference between Road Runner and violet pink films like Rape! 13th Hour. Both are equally ridiculous fantasy to me, and I enjoy their political incorrectness. But I do know many other people do see a difference between Rape! 13th Hour and Tom and Jerry. I don't.

Moving on to AV, it's really surprisingly mainstream in Japan. You just gave a perfect example with Sora Aoi, but she's not the only one. Mihiro is another good example. She released a top selling book about her life, which was adapted into a pretty good theatrical mainstream movie "Nude".

This year at the Yubari International Fantastic Film Festival three former or current AV stars were directly or indirectly competing for the best movie of the year award... Maki Mizui as a director for her abduction drama Kept (based on her own life), Asami as an actress for Gun Woman (for which she was also awarded as the best actress), and Shoko Akiyama as an actress for the awesome indie comedy Fuck Me to the Moon. Although Yubari isn't exactly a mainstream film fest, it does give good indication how promiment AV stars have become in Japanese genre cinema and even indie dramas.

There's lot of other examples, too. Mihiro was also in Yu Irie's past Yubari Winner Saitama Rappers. Aino Kishi was first in the splatter film Samurai Princess, in which she was terrible, but then she took everyone by a surprise with an excellent performance in the indie drama comedy Rubbers, in which she stars with Hiroshi Yamamoto.

Actual AV has also become quite mainstream. If you go to any Tsutaya (Japan's biggest video rental store chain) they'll have an AV section bigger than most people's apartment... People aren't especially ashamed to go there either, and people in general (girls also) seem to think that "of course guys watch AV". Well, I guess most guys everywhere do watch AV, but here it's much more openly acknowledged. Also, if you go to shops in Akihabara in Tokyo, typically the first floor is video games, the next two are manga, then comes one floor for movies, and then is two floors full of AV. Or if it's just a small store they'll certainly have an AV section + plenty of idol videos (including junior idols...)