Teenager placed with family raped toddler

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Yi-Long
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Unread post by Yi-Long » 06 Mar 2009, 12:39

bradavon wrote:
Markgway wrote:Men by nature are so ashamed of being raped that they would unlikely report it even when it has happened nevermind make a false allegation.
Shingster's point was you both more jumped on "women" being raped than any specifics.

I'm not surprised Yi did has it's not the first time he's said something misogynist.
Well... name me 5 cases of men who lied about being raped, and who turned out lied about it.
Cause I'm sure it's relatively easy to find 5 cases about lying women, even in the last year, while it seems pretty hard to find examples of men being raped, let alone them lying about it.

That's why I didnt mention men. It's not an issue. Only you could take that and turn it into me being a misogynist.

You wouldnt call me that if I would have been a woman!
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Shingster
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Unread post by Shingster » 06 Mar 2009, 12:46

Have you heard of the documentary Deliver Us From Evil,? It's about former priest Oliver O'Grady who raped or molested the children of his parishioners for 20years before he was finally deported from America. The church knew he was doing this and kept moving him around instead of shopping him to the police! It features extensive interview footage with O'Grady and his victims whilst also looking into why paedophilia is so rife within the Catholic church, and why they do very little to prevent it. It really is a fantastic documentary.

Yi-Long
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Unread post by Yi-Long » 06 Mar 2009, 12:53

Yeah, but this isn't about peadophilia, but about men and women (as in grown-ups) being raped and then lying about it).

Ofcourse there are lots of young boys being sexually abused. However, that's not the issue here.
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bradavon
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Unread post by bradavon » 06 Mar 2009, 13:40

Yi-Long wrote:Well... name me 5 cases of men who lied about being raped, and who turned out lied about it.
And that's relevant to your comments being misogynistic how?
Yi-Long wrote:Only you could take that and turn it into me being a misogynist.
I believe Shingster also eluded to it.
Yi-Long wrote:You wouldnt call me that if I would have been a woman!
That would be difficult when misogyny is hatred of women ;). Of course I would have though. My ex-ex-female boss hated men and was always saying equivalent things. Being a woman she always got completely away with it.

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Unread post by Yi-Long » 06 Mar 2009, 14:11

So which remark of mine would be misogynistic!?

Just because I'm saying it's mostly women that lie about being raped!?
Ah yes... surely that must be sign of me hating women(!) and has nothing to do with being realistic(!)
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Markgway
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Unread post by Markgway » 06 Mar 2009, 17:17

bradavon wrote:My office is rife with sexism and misogyny (of varying degrees) and it really pisses me off. They all consider it funny. I don't. I feel sorry for the couple of women working here at times.
Men can be assholes. No doubt.
That is why only 4% do get convicted.
That's shockingly low. And clearly something is majorly wrong in these prosecutions. But my point about one person's word over another stands. You need evidence and that's how it has to be.
Romero reckons they should have their cock cut off, even more extreme. Granted you didn't say that.
No and I wouldn't in all seriousness. I like to vent as much as (more than?) the next person. But I think we should hold off on the castrations. In cases not involving murder a jail sentence would suffice. The rusty shears can be kept at home.
Shingster's point was you both more jumped on "women" being raped than any specifics.
Because the victims in the vast majority of rapes (reported or not) are women. Someone says "rape" and we assume the victim is female. It's conditioning rather than prejudice. No misogyny was intended.
WTF! I'm sure I'd remember being raped, if drunk. I do agree it can get very hazy but giving consent when drunk will still be obvious.
A violent rape, sure. But not all rapes are OBVIOUS in their occurance. Say a woman wakes up in the morning to find her underwear taken off and semen inside her... BUT she doesn't remember having sex. She COULD have been raped? But it's not possible to be sure never mind prove it. Alcohol greatly inhibits memory and if anyone gets drunk they're taking all sorts of risks - rape just being one. Not a justification, just a cold, hard fact, I'm afraid.
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bradavon
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Unread post by bradavon » 06 Mar 2009, 18:45

Maybe I'm talking from experience too much. I rarely remember how I got from the pub to my bed but I always seem to remember the big things of the night, having sex I'd count as a big thing.

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Unread post by romerojpg » 06 Mar 2009, 19:11

Not if it was a tiny cock in you.

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bradavon
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Unread post by bradavon » 06 Mar 2009, 19:20

Even that.

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Markgway
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Unread post by Markgway » 07 Mar 2009, 00:25

I knew someone who was falsely accused of rape.

That's all I'm going to say on that but it DOES happen.
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Unread post by Shingster » 07 Mar 2009, 11:54

Yi-Long wrote:Yeah, but this isn't about peadophilia, but about men and women (as in grown-ups) being raped and then lying about it).

Ofcourse there are lots of young boys being sexually abused. However, that's not the issue here.
Err, this IS a thread about a paedophile rapist being let into a family's home by inept Social Service people. It's currently off on a tangent about rape in general, but the original topic is still relevant!

Yi-Long wrote:Only you could take that and turn it into me being a misogynist.
I believe Shingster also eluded to it.
I wasn't being that serious, but either way I eluded to Mark and Yi's inherent chauvinism when assuming that it's only women who could have a problem with crying "rape".

I won't argue that it is less likely for a man to come forward about being raped because of the more uptight attitudes towards homosexuality that exists within the male pysche, but at the end of the day people who are devious enough to accuse someone of rape falsely exists among both sexes.

I agree with Shen that it is pretty certain that the number of women who do falsely cry rape is massively outnumbered by the number of women who won't report rape out of shame because of the the type of chauvinistic attitudes expressed in this thread.
Yi-Long wrote:Well... name me 5 cases of men who lied about being raped, and who turned out lied about it.
Cause I'm sure it's relatively easy to find 5 cases about lying women, even in the last year, while it seems pretty hard to find examples of men being raped, let alone them lying about it.
The problem with doing this is that male-female rape so vastly outnumbers male-male rape that it's hard to find accounts of men or boys falsely crying rape, because you have to wade through pages and pages of reports of male-female rape. The media is also far less likely to run a story about male-male rape than male-female.

In fact, the only environment when male-male rape can become prevalent
per percentage of population is in prison. I'm sure if there were accurate reports/surveys on rape in male prisons released then you'd find a lot more accounts of false rape (and conversely a higher % of unreported male rape).
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Unread post by bradavon » 07 Mar 2009, 14:48

Markgway wrote:That's all I'm going to say on that but it DOES happen.
No need to shout, no one said it didn't.

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Unread post by Markgway » 08 Mar 2009, 03:48

Shingster wrote:I wasn't being that serious, but either way I eluded to Mark and Yi's inherent chauvinism when assuming that it's only women who could have a problem with crying "rape".
I never said only women "cry rape". Where did I say that? The only inherence here is the inherent bollocks in your post!
I agree with Shen that it is pretty certain that the number of women who do falsely cry rape is massively outnumbered by the number of women who won't report rape out of shame and because of the exactly chauvinistic attitudes expressed in this thread.
What chauvinistic attitudes? Are you trying to win the Germaine Greer award for male feminism? All I've done is state a number of facts. If you think that's chauvinistic you're wrong. I think it's terrible that women feel they can't come forward when they've been raped and have already said they should even if it doesn't lead to prosecution or conviction. The shame belongs to the perpetrator not the victim. You're right about male anxiety over the homosexual connotations of male on male rape but it's also the fear of losing control over their sexuality and the loss of power that comes with physical invasion. Makes them feel like less of a man and that's something that's extremely difficult for most men to admit to.
Cause I'm sure it's relatively easy to find 5 cases about lying women, even in the last year, while it seems pretty hard to find examples of men being raped, let alone them lying about it.
How is that different from what I said?
The problem with doing this is that male-female rape so vastly outnumbers male-male rape that it's hard to find accounts of men or boys falsely crying rape, because you have to wade through pages and pages of reports of male-female rape.
I never suggested that the reason men didn't cry rape was because they were somehow more moral than women. Most rape victims are women so naturally most genuine rapes and most false claims will be against/come from women. Most male victims are too ashamed to come forward for reasons outlined above.
The media is also far less likely to run a story about male-male rape than male-female.
Really? What is that based on?
In fact, the only environment when male-male rape can become prevalent per percentage of population is in prison. I'm sure if there were accurate reports/surveys on rape in male prisons released then you'd find a lot more accounts of false rape (and conversely a higher % of unreported male rape).
That's true. If every male rape that took place in prison was documented it would seriously bump up the percentage.
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Shingster
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Unread post by Shingster » 08 Mar 2009, 12:16

Markgway wrote:I never said only women "cry rape". Where did I say that? The only inherence here is the inherent bollocks in your post!
Ahem:
Markgway wrote:The only problem with rape is that it's usually one person's word against another and women have been known to lie...
You don't even entertain the idea that men would lie about rape in this statement, so yes there is some chauvinism in this comment. Maybe not a lot, but it is there.
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Unread post by Shingster » 08 Mar 2009, 12:29

Markgway wrote:Really? What is that based on?
Experience, I assume you regularly read papers and watch the news? When was the last time you read about male rape that wasn't about a paedophile molesting a child. Of course this goes back to the fact female rape is so much more common, but it is said that around 5-10% of all rape crimes have male victims, so if you compare that statistic with media output it's clear the media's coverage is disproportionately low.

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Unread post by Markgway » 09 Mar 2009, 11:21

Why would I entertain the idea of men lying about being raped when it almost never happens? The majority of rape victims are women therefore it's natural to assume that a victim (real or false) would be a woman. I never said men never made false claims but it happens so rarely that the qualification isn't needed. Not sure if you brought this up just to prove yourself PC but I think you're making much ado about nothing. And since I've now offered qualification I presume you're happy?
Shingster wrote:
Markgway wrote:I never said only women "cry rape". Where did I say that? The only inherence here is the inherent bollocks in your post!
Ahem:
Markgway wrote:The only problem with rape is that it's usually one person's word against another and women have been known to lie...
You don't even entertain the idea that men would lie about rape in this statement, so yes there is some chauvinism in this comment. Maybe not a lot, but it is there.
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Markgway
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Unread post by Markgway » 09 Mar 2009, 11:27

Shingster wrote:
Markgway wrote:Really? What is that based on?
Experience, I assume you regularly read papers and watch the news? When was the last time you read about male rape that wasn't about a paedophile molesting a child. Of course this goes back to the fact female rape is so much more common, but it is said that around 5-10% of all rape crimes have male victims, so if you compare that statistic with media output it's clear the media's coverage is disproportionately low.
I've honestly never counted but maybe 5-10% of rape coverage in the media is about male-victim rape? Even so that would make 90-95% of coverage about female-victim rape. Therefore if one were to talk about rape victims in general you would assume that females were the subject. Not because of any prejudice against women but because the figures support it.

When we talk about racism we always assume the victim is from a minority. But white people are victims of racism too. Now what propotion of racism cases reported by the media are white......? See what I'm getting at. I FEEL TERRIBLE for women who suffer rape and my saying that they are the majority is a fact not some kind of chauvinist wish-fulfilment. I've said nothing that has suggested I'm in anyway disrepectful of or intolerent toward female victims.
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