More Argento Blu-Rays coming from Arrow...

[saltysam]

Inferno

http://www.play.com/DVD/Blu-ray/4-/1527 ... |prd:30372

Deep Red

http://www.play.com/DVD/Blu-ray/4-/1527 ... |prd:30372

Cat O' Nine Tails,Bird With The Crystal Plumage & Phenomena to follow.

http://www.cultmovieforums.com/forum/sh ... hp?t=17302

Is Inferno still cut these days?

[Markgway]

Inferno is currently still BBFC cut.

Two cuts--
1. A Cat being bashed against a chair.
2. A Cat eating a mouse.

Apparently the first cut scene was actually faked, so that cut could end up being waived. But the second cut scene seems to be genuine, so I doubt we'll see an uncut version.

The pinned Lizard will also still be cut from Deep Red (though it slipped thru in the English version of the last DVD release).

[gasteropod]

Nice news, not about the potential cuts though, I hope they have Italian with subs too.

[Markgway]

Nice news, not about the potential cuts though, I hope they have Italian with subs too.

As none of those movies were made in Italian I don't see the point.

But they might...

[saltysam]

Tenebrae in July

http://www.moviemail-online.co.uk/film/ ... /Tenebrae/

[Markgway]

Ah, Tenebre is my favourite. Makes bugger all sense, but just draws you in from the start. I'll pick this up as long as it's an improvement on my Dutch DVD. That means English mono and 1080p uncut (not the edited version used by Anchor Bay).

[HungFist]

Tenebre and Phenomena are among my favs too, so definitely interested. And these two I prefer in English. Got the Finnish dvds of both, which are the best ones out there (same transfers as the Dutch ones, I believe), so needs to be a notable upgrade. I'm not interested in spending money on films I already own if the upgrade is just great dvd --> average BD. There's way too many interesting films that I don't own and haven't seen to invest that money on.

Not the biggest fan of Prodondo Rosso, would only pick it up if they released the shorter cut (which I haven't seen).

Arrow's cover arts have been really, really nice.

[gasteropod]

Tenebre and Phenomena are among my favs too, so definitely interested. And these two I prefer in English.

Are you kidding me? The English, whilst synch-sound on Phenomena, is fucking terrible. I've watched the trailer in Italian and it sounds much better.

[HungFist]

Tenebre and Phenomena are among my favs too, so definitely interested. And these two I prefer in English.

Are you kidding me? The English, whilst synch-sound on Phenomena, is fucking terrible. I've watched the trailer in Italian and it sounds much better.

I haven't heard the Italian audio. English is just how I'm used to seeing these two.

[gasteropod]

Yeah that's cool, sorry about that abruptness, I'd been drinking

[Markgway]

Not the biggest fan of Prodondo Rosso, would only pick it up if they released the shorter cut (which I haven't seen).

The international cut is 21 mins shorter than the Italian cut and much better paced. 126 mins is far too long for any giallo let alone one with a dodgy plot. Most of the added footage (dubbed only in Italian) is character-building but it's not really needed. Film is flawed, but very stylish.

Are you kidding me? The English, whilst synch-sound on Phenomena, is fucking terrible. I've watched the trailer in Italian and it sounds much better.

That's plain silly. If you think the audio on Phenomena is "fucking terrible" then blame the filmmakers - or the actors. You don't choose a foreign language because it sounded better on a trailer! That's like watching Mr. Nice Guy in Cantonese because you don't like the original accents. I don't understand this pretentious obsession with Argento's movies being in Italian. None of them were intended to be.

[gasteropod]

It's an Italian film!

[Markgway]

[gasteropod]

I'll ask Dario which language he prefers his films in next time I see him.

[HungFist]

Not the biggest fan of Profondo Rosso, would only pick it up if they released the shorter cut (which I haven't seen).

The international cut is 21 mins shorter than the Italian cut and much better paced. 126 mins is far too long for any giallo let alone one with a dodgy plot. Most of the added footage (dubbed only in Italian) is character-building but it's not really needed. Film is flawed, but very stylish.

The Nordic dvd has both, but conversion job apparently.

I'll ask Dario which language he prefers his films in next time I see him.

Dario prefers English. That, however, doesn't mean viewers should. Just like viewers also don't have to prefer Lucas / Friedkin remix crap even if these directors think that's the only way to view their films now.

If you're a fan of Italian cinema, it's a very decent argument to want to view these films as they played in their home country.

[Markgway]

I'll ask Dario which language he prefers his films in next time I see him.

Yes, you do that. But don't come crying to me when he starts off with "didn't Mark explain this to you already??".

If you're a fan of Italian cinema, it's a very decent argument to want to view these films as they played in their home country.

It's a VERY pretentious argument UNLESS you're fluent in Italian.

[HungFist]

If you're a fan of Italian cinema, it's a very decent argument to want to view these films as they played in their home country.

It's a VERY pretentious argument UNLESS you're fluent in Italian.

Why is English somehow preferrable? Subtitle phobia?

[gasteropod]

I don't feel that I'm being pretentious by watching them in Italian because they're embarrassingly humorous in English I find.

[romerojpg]

Well shit in English is still shit in Italian, he makes shit films, any langauge wont improve shit.

[Markgway]

Why is English somehow preferrable? Subtitle phobia?

Yes, that's it. You've figured me all out. I have a fear of subtitles. That's why I've watched almost 2,000 subtitled movies in my life - my inate FEAR of subtitles. Congrats, Dr. Freud.

Why would English language for an English language movie be preferable to dubbed Italian with English subtitles? Gee, I dunno. Give me a hint...

I don't feel that I'm being pretentious

But really you are... Honest.

[HungFist]

Why is English somehow preferrable? Subtitle phobia?

Yes, that's it. You've figured me all out. I have a fear of subtitles. That's why I've watched almost 2,000 subtitled movies in my life - my inate FEAR of subtitles. Congrats, Dr. Freud.

Just tested if I'd get that "lost visual information" argument.

Why would English language for an English language movie be preferable to dubbed Italian with English subtitles? Gee, I dunno. Give me a hint...

Because someone likes the Italian track more. Is it that difficult to understand?

The situation here is pretty similar to if John Woo had decided to dub A Better Tomorrow in Mandarin and call that the correct language. It would still have played in HK in Cantonese, and I wouldn't be surprised if many fans would also prefer to see it that way.

You said that the latter is a pretentious argument. That sounds like something Disney executives would say. To me it's very understandable that if you're interested in a certain country's culture, you also like to see their films as they played in that country, rather than the foreigner friendly export version.

[Markgway]

Because someone likes the Italian track more. Is it that difficult to understand?

If they don't speak Italian? Yes.

Would I prefer to watch Rush Hour 2 in Cantonese because of Chris Tucker's annoying voice? No. It's an English film. Doesn't really matter where it was filmed.

The situation here is pretty similar to if John Woo had decided to dub A Better Tomorrow in Mandarin and call that the correct language. It would still have played in HK in Cantonese, and I wouldn't be surprised if many fans would also prefer to see it that way.

The chances of Woo shooting any movie in Cantonese then post-dubbing it into Mandarin as "original language" are so remote that it's a point not even worth addressing.

Unless you speak fluent Cantonese I can't imagine why you would prefer to watch a Mandarin film that way. But that's just me.

You said that the latter is a pretentious argument. That sounds like something Disney executives would say. To me it's very understandable that if you're interested in a certain country's culture, you also like to see their films as they played in that country, rather than the foreigner friendly export version.

That argument doesn't hold water. If you were talking about an Italian production spoken in Italian I would agree 100%. But with Argento that's simply not the case. He intended those movies to be in English. If you feel that's a betrayal of his culture so be it. But it doesn't change fact. I'm interested in Hong Kong Cinema and culture but would I prefer to watch Who Am I? in Cantonese simply because it's a Hong Kong production? Nope.

You can keep arguing here... but you're wrong.

[HungFist]

Because someone likes the Italian track more. Is it that difficult to understand?

If they don't speak Italian? Yes.

Now, this makes no sense at all. You say that it's understandable that people who speak Italian would prefer to watch these movies in the wrong language, but people who speak English would always prefer to watch them in the correct language. Italians stupid or what? Or is it, after all, that you do actually prefer audio over subtitles, and this factor affects on your preference* for English audio (aka your native language)?

Would I prefer to watch Rush Hour 2 in Cantonese because of Chris Tucker's annoying voice? No. It's an English film. Doesn't really matter where it was filmed.

Yes, but I believe everyone in Rush Hour 2 actually spoke English, spoke their own lines, and if I'm not completely mistaken, the film even played in English in it's native country.

My comparisons are not the best, but yours are seriously far off.

You said that the latter is a pretentious argument. That sounds like something Disney executives would say. To me it's very understandable that if you're interested in a certain country's culture, you also like to see their films as they played in that country, rather than the foreigner friendly export version.

That argument doesn't hold water. If you were talking about an Italian production spoken in Italian I would agree 100%. But with Argento that's simply not the case. He intended those movies to be in English. If you feel that's a betrayal of his culture so be it. But it doesn't change fact. I'm interested in Hong Kong Cinema and culture but would I prefer to watch Who Am I? in Cantonese simply because it's a Hong Kong production? Nope.

You can keep arguing here... but you're wrong.

Again, Who Am I probably played in English in HK, but in case it played in Cantonese, then the comparison would be accurate. Yes, I was referring to such case. And no, I wouldn't watch it in Cantonese myself. As I stated before, the Argento films discussed here I also wouldn't watch in Italian. I'm discussing from a neutral perspective here.

* The reason why I always get into this discussion with you is that, no matter if it's dubs or movie violence, you have a habit of considering your personal opinion the general truth, and deny all other views or call them wrong, even declare other people violent maniacs just because their opinions of movies differ from yours.

Speaking of movie violence, I finally did watch Grotesque tonight and will be writing my review as soon as I find time.

[romerojpg]

Well done

[Markgway]

Now, this makes no sense at all. You say that it's understandable that people who speak Italian would prefer to watch these movies in the wrong language, but people who speak English would always prefer to watch them in the correct language. Italians stupid or what? Or is it, after all, that you do actually prefer audio over subtitles, and this factor affects on your preference* for English audio (aka your native language)?

I don't have much clue what you're talking about. But I'll take a stab at answering regardless...

I prefer to watch movies in Original language with English subtitles. In the case of A Better Tomorrow that would be Cantonese. For Argento films that would be English so I've no need for subs. Many filmgoers prefer to watch films in their own language even if that means dubbing - obviously I'm not one of them. Therefore an English speaker may want to see an English dubbed version of A Better Tomorrow and an Italian might want to see an Italian dubbed version of Tenebre. These fans don't care what the original language is. However -- what I've rarely heard of is an English native who doesn't speak Italian wanting to watch an English language film in Italian. It makes no sense whatsoever. I don't think I can be any clearer than that.

Yes, but I believe everyone in Rush Hour 2 actually spoke English, spoke their own lines, and if I'm not completely mistaken, the film even played in English in it's native country.

The majority of the cast in Argento films spoke English (the ones who didn't were in the minority). The films were shot silent (ala Hong Kong) and so professional dubbers were used to get rid of those pesky Italian accents. This is what gives them a stilted quality. Italian dubs were created in the studio at the same time exclusively for local audiences because the producers cared about this market not because the Italian language was more important to the film. Take Suspiria - Jesscia Harper, Joan Bennett, and Alida Valli all spoke English and dubbed their own voices (some scenes were actually shot sync). Why would you possibly want to see it in Italian? Answers on a postcard... I don't know how Rush Hour 2 played in HK but it was probably English with Chinese subs.

My comparisons are not the best, but yours are seriously far off.

At least I'm trying to find genuine examples rather than making up rubbish about John Woo dubbing Cantonese into Mandarin(!)

Again, Who Am I probably played in English in HK, but in case it played in Cantonese, then the comparison would be accurate.

I think it played primarily in English with the Tribal scenes (oddly) redubbed into Cantonese.

I'm discussing from a neutral perspective here.

Nothing wrong with a bit of devil's advocate but I'm doing my best to explain here and it's not working... lol

The reason why I always get into this discussion with you is that, no matter if it's dubs or movie violence, you have a habit of considering your personal opinion the general truth, and deny all other views or call them wrong, even declare other people violent maniacs just because their opinions of movies differ from yours.

My opinions are true to me. Just as yours are to you. If I didn't believe in what I was saying why would I say it? If Podboy wants to watch Argento in Italian he can go right ahead. I'm just explaining why I think he's wrong to do so. Actually in this case - unlike the more subjective case of torture porn - I'm dealing with facts. It's not my opinion about what language these films were shot in. It's fact. You can either choose to believe me or think I'm lying - there's only so much I can say. If you're unsure do your own research.

Speaking of movie violence, I finally did watch Grotesque tonight and will be writing my review as soon as I find time.

Rather you than me.