At Least 25 Million Americans Pirate Movies

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 27 Jan 2007, 14:18

thelostdragon wrote:Again the keyword: No Cost. To me, free (or no cost) means if it is authorised by the studio.

I meant no cost to "us".

Unrealnils · Post by **Unrealnils** » 27 Jan 2007, 15:41

Lost dragon do you feel downloading tv shows the same or diffrent to downloading movies ??

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 27 Jan 2007, 17:19

Kurgan, that is an excellent post my man

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 27 Jan 2007, 19:29

What's this then Lost Dragon if you're so against breaking copyright? - https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... php?t=2519

A hypocrite if I ever saw one. Which btw you should've known better than to post. It's one thing to discuss or debate it's another thing entirely to show how to do it. Mordib is very clear on the one rule we do have:

Please no links to illegal sites that break copyright or advice on how to break it!

Can I remind everyone to read Mordib's recent post on it: https://www.bulletsnbabesdvd.com/forums/ ... 4&start=24

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 27 Jan 2007, 22:15

Thanks Grim. Just letting everyone know that that I'm an insomniac... oh, you meant the other one. Well, thanks on that, too.

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 30 Jan 2007, 14:28

I refuse to buy a pirate or download a movie. It's immoral Every film I want to see is also one to owned so I will buy the film.

If a DVD is screwed by a distributor - such as some of the Shaws - I'm willing to have a better copy by means of a traded fan copy but I'll never pay for it. And the second the legal owner releases it properly, I'll get the proper article. I won't pay for screwed up work but I reward a good job - by which I mean a decent DVD, some of the films I own are legendary in their awfullness but I still pay for them to get the film. How else do you explain the presence of Jaws III or Robot Monster in my collection?

So I guess I'm a tad hypocritical in some respects but that's when the studio has failed to deliver a good product. I don't approve of paying for a DVD-R of the latest studio blockbuster or buying a pirate of a perfectly good DVD. Mind you, the studios objected in the 80's to people lending thier videos to their mates

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Jan 2007, 18:55

Fair enough Ivan. That sounds like fair logic to me.

Would you A: Buy a DVD if it's the only way to get hold of it using your example? B: Would you buy a DVD if all they charged was £1/$1/€1?

In other words I'm interested to see if your "I won't pay for it stance" has a limit. I'm just curious is all.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 30 Jan 2007, 19:05

I would buy a bootleg if it's better then any of the legal versions. I mean, come on. these companies have the rights and the methods to produce a good quality uncut DVD, and when they don't release it correctly, and a bootlegger does, then the bootlegger can get my money.
But TBH I've never bought a bootleg, and I dont see myself splashing more then 5 euro on a bootleg either.
At school, there were guys who wanted money if they copied something for me (programs), but I just had a few people around me who if they needed something that I had, I'd just burn them a copy, and if I needed something from them, they wouldnt ask for money eitehr cause they know I would hook them up for free as well.
(Again, this was school, so we're talking mainly about programs here... but also some anime and an Ong-Bak bootleg)

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 30 Jan 2007, 20:14

I used to get BBC Master Series/Model B games copied for me when I was at school

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 30 Jan 2007, 20:25

bradavon wrote:Fair enough Ivan. That sounds like fair logic to me.

Would you A: Buy a DVD if it's the only way to get hold of it using your example? B: Would you buy a DVD if all they charged was £1/$1/€1?

In other words I'm interested to see if your "I won't pay for it stance" has a limit. I'm just curious is all.

Wouldn't buy a pirate of an easily avaliable movie for 1p, nor would I accept it as a gift! If the film is out of print or hard to find I'll trade. I'm opposed to Panmedia's booting of various kung fu movies for profit. But if someone had say a tape copied to DVD-R, I'd trade or pay for the postage. The kung fu DVD industry in the States was hit hard by the bootlegging and I oppose that.

I don't think Joe Public buying pirates affects the studios that much but I do think it seriously affects the individual cinemas and stores.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Jan 2007, 20:39

You'd trade it but wouldn't accept it as a gift. Huh?

I don't think Joe Public buying pirates affects the studios that much but I do think it seriously affects the individual cinemas and stores.

IMO it would certainly effect the small time director and film store but cinema and general store it depends how big they are. Multiplexes it wouldn't really hurt.

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 30 Jan 2007, 20:48

Well it's not much of a gift if someone just copied a disc instead of buying it for me!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Jan 2007, 20:58

Fair enough.

Killer Meteor · Post by **Killer Meteor** » 30 Jan 2007, 21:01

However, to use an example of what limits my standards go to, I accepted a very kind gift of the Japanese King Kong Vs. Godzilla, which was a DVD-R of the very expensive, OOP, non English subtitled Japanese DVD. The guy who gave it me went to the trouble of putting on English subs. I was very touched by this.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 30 Jan 2007, 23:07

Ivan Drago wrote:However, to use an example of what limits my standards go to, I accepted a very kind gift of the Japanese King Kong Vs. Godzilla, which was a DVD-R of the very expensive, OOP, non English subtitled Japanese DVD. The guy who gave it me went to the trouble of putting on English subs. I was very touched by this.

KK; "WOOOO-OOO-OOOHHH"
Godz; "WRAAHHHHHHHHHHH"
KK: "OOHHH-ARRR-OOOH-OOOHHH!!!"
Godz; "WRAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH-AHHHH!!!"
KK; "Oh... ehm... OOh?"
Godz; "Wrah!"
KK; "Oh ok then..."

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 30 Jan 2007, 23:17

Interesting Ivan.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 31 Jan 2007, 00:52

Not on the topic of movies, but of something that gets pirated almost as much, if not more: games. Specifically, this. Now, this is a developer I respect; been playing one of their games for a fair ol' while now. So, when something like this happens, it cements what I think...

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 31 Jan 2007, 04:21

Kurgan wrote:Not on the topic of movies, but of something that gets pirated almost as much, if not more: games. Specifically, this. Now, this is a developer I respect; been playing one of their games for a fair ol' while now. So, when something like this happens, it cements what I think...

Sad story, but obviously their decision to not sell the game in stores, but only through downloads, probably also affected their sales.

People want to BUY the game and have physicall proof of their buy, as in a box, booklet and disc...

If you are gonna download it, why not download the 'free' version instead of paying for it? At least, I think that's how many people thought about it.

So yeah, their sales were affected by piracy, but they CHOSE to pit themselfs directly against piracy by offering the exact same deal as the illegal version, so potential costumers only had a choice between downloading a free illegal version, or downloading a legal version for money.

Doesnt seem like a smart business move to me.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 31 Jan 2007, 10:58

Perhaps the fact that they did go for the digital distribution method, rather than the ol' bricks'n'mortar option (or even a mix of the two) hurt them, but still. The official download would've been undoubtedly the easier of the two options to install (no cracks and pissing about like that), but it is just the mentality of some (most?) people: why should I be paying for something when I can get it for free? Guilt?

Although the thought of downloading something like Football Manager is something I'd baulk at; that game is massive and it'd end up taking days to finish piping to your machine!

If you look at Steam (the system used by Valve Software to download and maintain the Half-Life series of games), they initially made their big game available for download as well as purchase on disc, just to gauge reception. They found that pre-release downloading works a treat and are considering it for all their games and doing the forthcoming expansion pack as a download-only.
Monetarily it makes sense. Publishers (the gaming equivalent of film studio, if you will, so "Boo!" and "Hiss!" and... etc.) are cut out of the loop. So your money goes directly to the people who made the game; the developers. When you buy a game from a store, a chunk of that goes to the store, another chunk goes to the publisher and the developer gets a relatively small amount. Smaller devs can't afford the shelf-space prices by the likes of GAME and are so digital distribution makes sense for them. Maximise income, minimise outlay. I downloaded a demo for a game called Defcon and am really tempted to buy it: £10 to buy it, and £15 if you want a box and a manual. I've relented thus far because I've no-one to play against and the real reason to pay for it is the multi-player aspect *sob*

Games are one of those things that I don't agree should be downloaded, except in those rare cases that a demo isn't forthcoming from the developer. Although they all come with the caveat that the demo might be unrepresentative of the finished game, we all know that they're as close as dammit. They usually give the player a good indication of what the game's like, and from this actual playtest, one can decide if it's worth parting cash for.* Again, if you've got the time to be playing games, that should mean you can pay for 'em as well. Just try not to get into my situation where I'm buying games but can't play 'em cos I'm too busy working.

*The one game that didn't fit into this category for me was the original Halo. If you want the best level in the whole bloody game, download the demo. I'm so glad I didn't buy this and that my brother did. Terrible, terrible game.

Lourdes · Post by **Lourdes** » 31 Jan 2007, 11:30

I'd like it if there was a digital version of every game with sensible pricing and decent servers. The problem with all the legit download services is that they're usually little less than a physical copy and take forever to get.
Any modern titles I feel are worth owning I download illegal copies of and then get a legit Asian key. I have to deal with the hassle of protections but my download is faster, there's better compatability and freedom and the price is so much lower. Rainbow Six: Vegas PC. £25 from Play, £10 shipped from Thailand or about £7 for just the key. I'd pay maybe £15-20 for a new title like that from a decent download service.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 31 Jan 2007, 15:12

Kurgan wrote:Perhaps the fact that they did go for the digital distribution method, rather than the ol' bricks'n'mortar option (or even a mix of the two) hurt them, but still. The official download would've been undoubtedly the easier of the two options to install (no cracks and pissing about like that), but it is just the mentality of some (most?) people: why should I be paying for something when I can get it for free? Guilt?
Although the thought of downloading something like Football Manager is something I'd baulk at; that game is massive and it'd end up taking days to finish piping to your machine!

If you look at Steam (the system used by Valve Software to download and maintain the Half-Life series of games), they initially made their big game available for download as well as purchase on disc, just to gauge reception. They found that pre-release downloading works a treat and are considering it for all their games and doing the forthcoming expansion pack as a download-only.
Monetarily it makes sense. Publishers (the gaming equivalent of film studio, if you will, so "Boo!" and "Hiss!" and... etc.) are cut out of the loop. So your money goes directly to the people who made the game; the developers. When you buy a game from a store, a chunk of that goes to the store, another chunk goes to the publisher and the developer gets a relatively small amount. Smaller devs can't afford the shelf-space prices by the likes of GAME and are so digital distribution makes sense for them. Maximise income, minimise outlay. I downloaded a demo for a game called Defcon and am really tempted to buy it: £10 to buy it, and £15 if you want a box and a manual. I've relented thus far because I've no-one to play against and the real reason to pay for it is the multi-player aspect *sob*

Games are one of those things that I don't agree should be downloaded, except in those rare cases that a demo isn't forthcoming from the developer. Although they all come with the caveat that the demo might be unrepresentative of the finished game, we all know that they're as close as dammit. They usually give the player a good indication of what the game's like, and from this actual playtest, one can decide if it's worth parting cash for.* Again, if you've got the time to be playing games, that should mean you can pay for 'em as well. Just try not to get into my situation where I'm buying games but can't play 'em cos I'm too busy working.

*The one game that didn't fit into this category for me was the original Halo. If you want the best level in the whole bloody game, download the demo. I'm so glad I didn't buy this and that my brother did. Terrible, terrible game.

Well... you talk about Steam, and I know for many it worked perfectly and all... but for me it didnt. I tried downloading the Half-Life 2 demo a year orso ago and so I also had to download steam and setup an account etc etc...

Anyway, long story short: a lot of work and a lot of hassle, and in the end I still didnt get the demo. Could have been me being an idiot, or it could have been Steam being annoying on that day, or having a black-out or whatever, but a very simple thing like downloading a demo was made excruciatingly difficult by having to register and download extra software etc.
I think I've tried it once or twice more, and then decided it just isnt for me. If I then could have had an illegal version of the game, I most certainly would have gone for that, so I wouldnt have to go through all the shit.

Now I'm just going to wait for the 360 version to play it, since it's supposedly a brilliant game. But if it would have just been an OK game or whatever, they would have 1 less costumer since in the future I certainly wont be trying Steam and demos from them again...

I'm also not a bog fan of the current 360 marketplace scam, where developers release a game that's half-finished, and then weeks later throw the remaining content on Marketplace so they can make some extra bucks.
They did it with Viva Pinata, and they seem to now be doing it again with Forza 2 (stuff that was announced to be in the game, is said to be pulled from the release game, but they say it will probably end up in Marketplace)

I'm all for buying my games, and I have a huge amount of games to proof it. But when developers start pulling shit like this, I do start feeling tempted to get a modded 360, and just download my games from now on...
Luckily, there are also still developers who offer their marketplace extra stuff for free (I think Gears of War has extra and free content), so those games I WOULD buy in the shop. But for me, a game like Pinata, where it's so obvious that they just wanted to make an extra buck 1-2 weeks after they released the game, I have no sympathy for that...

I totally agree with you about halo as well, btw. Both halos just suck IMHO.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 31 Jan 2007, 17:07

And I agree with you about the XBox Marketplace shenanigans. I've not played (and won't play) Viva Piñata though it does look like fun, because like you say add-ons were released a week or so after the game's launch, which again (to re-iterate your point once more) seems like gouging me for my money. They weren't even bits that added much to the game, but cost a fair few MS points.
Gears of War has some freebie multiplayer maps, which is good work from Epic. .

It's a shame you didn't get Steam going on your PC, cos a standard joypad controller is no match for mouse and keyboard (or the Wii controller

) and Half-Life doth truly rock, as does its add-on pack (which is very good too). I registered myself on Steam absolutely years ago, when it was first launched. As a result, I don't have a username, I have an e-mail address

But when I was installing it, I don't remember there being any particular problem. But hey-ho.

Just want to say again that Halo is a very average game with absolutely no variety in level design.