My Impression of Vista

Consoles, Computers, iPads, and More
HD Discussion Elsewhere
Post Reply
romerojpg
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8520
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 14:12
Location: CLOSE TO YOUR MAMMA

Post by romerojpg »

As long as its a stable system and does not crash all the time I will be happy, my current PC goes off even opening a simple photo! its well boinked, I have to take off the side panel, get out my massive desktop fan and blow it into the whole system. I guess its overheating :D It just tunes off instantly, taking things with it regulary.

So Vista canot get any worse than that :D


What about these kinds of simple changes/speed up/prblem solving programmes?

http://www.optimizevista.net/

http://www.vistatuneuptips.com/recommen ... QwodcheoXw

http://www.faster-pc.net/lp/?gclid=CKHD ... QwodrnQKXA
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

If it does that there's definitely something wrong with the hardware and not an OS re-install Windows issue.

Vista's Defrag tool btw runs in the background once a week and is entirely silent. There's none of this manual remembering to run it rubbish as in XP and prior. You just set a time and forget it. There is barely any interface for it as they concentrated on making it work well with minimum cpu resources.
This one looks a lot like CCleaner which is also free but nice and small, it's also the one most techies seem to use:

http://www.ccleaner.com/

I run it every now and again. None of them do enormous changes to performance but they do help to keep it zippy.

One thing to remember with these programs is they can have a negative affect. If you fill your PC with so much software (regardless of what it does) then you'll be in fact making it worse.

You mentioned it will take you weeks to install your software. This says to me you're going to install LOTS of software. This sounds like a bad idea to me (Tom will definitely back me up on this one) as you'll be really cluttering the PC.

Firstly obviously go into Programs and Features (Add/Remove on XP) and uninstall all the crap they put on you and you don't want or will never use (if in doubt get rid, obviously drivers don't uninstall). Then only install software you either use on a daily basis or actually use once a month or more. If you only use it every few months don't install it and install it when you need too.

There is nothing stopping you installing software when you actually need them instead of all at the start. Keep it clean, not an entirely easy task when you have to use a OEM installation with lots of pre-installed crap.
romerojpg
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8520
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 14:12
Location: CLOSE TO YOUR MAMMA

Post by romerojpg »

I used to use a few clean up programmes etc.. for XP, but hell most I found did nothing or nothing I did not normally do anyway. Vista I do not know that well yet, so it will take me a bit to get used to what to do, clean and keep simple.

Yup your right with the over installing stuff, I used to put way to much on my system and always had a full Hard drive. Always had to delete things to add new ones. When I first got my PC I was installig everything like an insane loony! game demos and stupid programmes from coverdiscs (I would try hundreds of things from cover dvds, most crap), urrggh makes me sick thinking of doing that now :D

I have got out of the habit of that since my last re-install of XP, very few programmes I put on it unless I really need it now :) so I guess I have changed a we bit at least. Wont take weeks to install them like I said, but will not be quick for some things as even a few games can take hours! esspecially if they are on old multiple cd's.

I have well over 1TB HD space, so space aint a problem anymore I guess.
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

I used to use a few clean up programmes etc.. for XP, but hell most I found did nothing or nothing I did not normally do anyway.
Cleanup programs specifically don't. They're just designed to make life a wee bit easier. They are useful for clearing registry crud though which obviously is much harder to do yourself.
Yup your right with the over installing stuff, I used to put way to much on my system and always had a full Hard drive. Always had to delete things to add new ones.
Me too. Remember uninstall programs never ever 100% remove all traces of a program and because of this it's simply better to not install at all then install to only uninstall it later. Only install what you actually regularly use. The rest you can put on later.
When I first got my PC I was installig everything like an insane loony! game demos and stupid programmes from coverdiscs (I would try hundreds of things from cover dvds, most crap), urrggh makes me sick thinking of doing that now.
Most people still do, then wonder why their PC's performance sucks. It's amazing how much crud many people have in their System Tray and running in the background (found via Task Manager). It can be staggeringly high.
Wont take weeks to install them like I said, but will not be quick for some things as even a few games can take hours! esspecially if they are on old multiple cd's.
Agreed. It does take a few weeks to get a system setup just right.
I have well over 1TB HD space, so space aint a problem anymore I guess.
Wholly mother of god :| , don't go filling it with crud for the sake of it. Obviously user data (such as documents, videos, music etc...) doesn't count as that leaves no trace behind or causes performance issus when it's on there.

How much did the PC cost you? What's it's spec?

What's going on we're not slagging each other off :D
romerojpg
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8520
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 14:12
Location: CLOSE TO YOUR MAMMA

Post by romerojpg »

Ahh I aint got 1TB in the computer, a combo of External back up drives make up my space to about 1.25TB's. 1x500GB in PC, 1x500GB external regular back up and a 250GB reserve back up.

I know its probibly over the top, but hell at least I have space. I put dvds on one back up drive, no need to hog my pc with them. 20000 Photos also take up some space :D they get backed up onto DVD's as well :D safe, rather than sorry I say.



Spec wise the PC is not top of the line, but it should be pretty fast and hopefully very silent as it is heavily done towards the quiet side of computing.

I also can if I want to overclock it far more and be safe, as the things going to be cool inside and in theory I could push eveyrthing for some overclocking extra power, but if that made more noise I would not bother too much. Never done overclocking before, but I now at least have the option in the future.


Still got to get some other parts together to add later, so far.

CASE: NZXT HUSH 420W Black Mid-Tower Case

CPU: (Sckt775)Intel® CoreT 2 Duo E6850 CPU @ 3.00GHz 1333FSB 4MB L2 Cache 64-bit

CD DVD
: SONY DUAL FORMAT 18X DVD±R/±RW + CD-R/RW DRIVE DUAL LAYER

FLASHMEDIA: INTERNAL 12in1 Flash Media Reader/Writer

CPU FAN: Thermaltake 120mm BIG Typhoon Cooler

HDD: Single Hard Drive (500GB SATA-II 3.0Gb/s 16MB Cache 7200RPM

MOTHERBOARD: (QX9650 Supports) Asus P5K SE Intel P35 Chipset LGA775 FSB1333 DDR2/800 Mainboard w/GbLAN,USB2.0,&7.1Audio

MEMORY: (Req.DDR2 MainBoard)2GB (2x1GB) PC6400 DDR2/800 Dual Channel Memory (Corsair XMS2 Xtreme Memory w/ Heat Spreader

OS: Microsoft® Windows VistaT Home Premium (32-bit Edition)

POWERSUPPLY: 580 Watts Power Supplies (Hiper Type-M SLI/Crossfire Ready 580 Watt Power Supply)

SOUND: Creative Labs SB X-Fi Xtreme Audio 24-BIT PCI Sound Card

VIDEO: NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 16X PCI Express Video Card

so far cost £900

But may take it a bit more in a while with another 1GB Ram and a nice LG HD combo drive :) so should end up over £1000, yes its not cheap and I could have made it myself (maybe £100 off that price) by ordering everything seperate but still not sure I could do it.
My current PC lasted 5 years, so overall year by year its not that much.
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

Ahh I aint got 1TB in the computer, a combo of External back up drives make up my space to about 1.25TB's. 1x500GB in PC, 1x500GB external regular back up and a 250GB reserve back up.
Ah, that makes more sense.

My laptop HDD is 120GB and I have a 80GB 2.5" HDD Backup :D . The laptop HDD 51Gb free (sometimes down to 10Gb but not often) and the 80Gb backup drive has 10Gb. I even have two DVDs backed up to the Backup HDD :D
I know its probibly over the top, but hell at least I have space.
Surely you'd be better off selling the 250GB on eBay?
I put dvds on one back up drive, no need to hog my pc with them.
Is it that hard to put a disc in? ;)
they get backed up onto DVD's as well Very Happy safe, rather than sorry I say.
Once a month I backup my crucial data (E-Mail, Documents etc...) to DVD-RW too. It's definitely worth having a backup.
Spec wise the PC is not top of the line.
That spec. looks ace. I've no idea if it's a good price as I don't keep up on it but knowing you I bet it's a super price. Why didn't you get a Quad Core?
But may take it a bit more in a while with another 1GB Ram.
How many RAM slots does it have? 2Gb will be fine to start off with.
yes its not cheap and I could have made it myself (maybe £100 off that price) by ordering everything seperate but still not sure I could do it.
There was a time when you could save a packet by building it yourself but today it's less true.

I'd always build my own PC but that's simply because I always have.
My current PC lasted 5 years, so overall year by year its not that much.
Not at all.
romerojpg
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8520
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 14:12
Location: CLOSE TO YOUR MAMMA

Post by romerojpg »

Not Quad core as Games and some other things still run better with Duel Core chips it seems :) in the future Quad will obviously surpass duel in every way, but at the moment many seem to still go for Duel ones. Its the wrong time to get a new PC really, its on the verge of Quads taking the world over.

Quads also seem to run hotter, so duel keeps the temperature down as well and lower temps mean more silence :) I did consider going Quad as this top range Duel core and the lowest Quad were the same price, but suport does not quite seem to bring Quad as the winner yet, unless you overclock the hell out of em :D thus creating loads more heat again, I prefer as quiet as I can get.

Still I am stunned at how far you can overclock the CPU's at the moment you can easily add 30% more power and still have loads more room to go higher with the right cooling. Mine I would guess I would take up to 3.5Ghz no problems, 4 maybe, not sure how hot it would get, but may give it a whirl one time.
EvaUnit02
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 9101
Joined: 08 Feb 2005, 14:39
Location: Wellywood, Kiwiland
Contact:

Post by EvaUnit02 »

Don't get a PC now, wait a few weeks. In 2-3 weeks the new 45nm Core 2 (Dual and Quad cores) will be out sporting a 20-30% performance increase over the current Core 2's.

Things will run better dual core better than quad core? Rubbish, there'll be no difference. The games that'll truly take at advantage of quad cores will start rolling out this year (eg Alan Wake from Remedy). It'd be foolish to get Duo at this point, especially with the E6850 and Q6600 costing virtually the same.

Also a reliable brand PSU is paramount, often the most overlooked part when building a new PC. Good brands:- Corsair, Silverstone, Zalman (and Enermax, but they're reportedly not as good as they used to be).
romerojpg
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8520
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 14:12
Location: CLOSE TO YOUR MAMMA

Post by romerojpg »

Yup Eva its a waiting game and I really couldnt be bothered to wait any more sadly :( this current PC is gone, its gonna blow very soon and its off more than on latley. So I had to get a new one asap. If I had waited a few months I am sure I could have got a better PC for my cash thats for sure, but then isnt that always te way.

The E6850 and Q6600 was THE biggest thing I had to think about and loked at many comparisons and discusions on many places, your right mind you I was probibly a bit silly not to future proof with the Quad core, but I thought hey here and now if I am not overcloking I would rather have a tiny bit faster Duel Core than Quad. I may well regret that in a year or two thats for sure.

The Hiper Power supply seems very quiet (almost inaudible according to reviews), so had to go for one like that, its a farily well reviewed Power supply so could not mind any issues using it, apart from lack of plugs apprently but its not like I will be adding tonnes of mnew stuff inside anyway.
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

You probably wouldn't get the same deal on a new CPU too.
EvaUnit02
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 9101
Joined: 08 Feb 2005, 14:39
Location: Wellywood, Kiwiland
Contact:

Post by EvaUnit02 »

romerojpg wrote:The E6850 and Q6600 was THE biggest thing I had to think about and loked at many comparisons and discusions on many places, your right mind you I was probibly a bit silly not to future proof with the Quad core, but I thought hey here and now if I am not overcloking I would rather have a tiny bit faster Duel Core than Quad. I may well regret that in a year or two thats for sure.
Your loss, moron. At least the motherboard can overclock the shit out your CPU.
saltysam
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 9357
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 19:27

Post by saltysam »

EvaUnit02 wrote:Your loss, moron. At least the motherboard can overclock the shit out your CPU.
i know you are having a shitty time at the moment Eva but there is no need for that :roll:
romerojpg
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8520
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 14:12
Location: CLOSE TO YOUR MAMMA

Post by romerojpg »

Hey the Q6600 runs at nearly 2 times the voltage of the E6850 (65w) and creates a lot more heat and would make my sytem louder, with overclock even more.

So really for a quiet system what I picked will be best I hope, but if I wanted raw power and the best I would go for Quad core and all the bits and bobs to go with it to keep it cool and stable.

If I was creating just a game machine for the cash I spent I could easily have done a far better system speed wise, but it would have to be louder, or water cooled. At the moment I am after as quiet as I can get.
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

It looks wicked to me Romero. You can go on forever when it comes to upgrading PC's.
romerojpg
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 8520
Joined: 26 Oct 2004, 14:12
Location: CLOSE TO YOUR MAMMA

Post by romerojpg »

I like talking, but learning about this stuff more, just the last few weeks I have been reading plenty to get into it, even small comments can make a difference. Like Iron Monkeys Set up, thats made me want HD drive now for my PC when I had not for a moment considered it at all.

Still it is hard to take in all the stats and stuff, some of you have always been good with PC's, I aint ever been. I get along, but its a pain sometimes.

Still I Hope Vista is worth installing at all at the moment, as reading how well XP and Service Pack 3 is going and how poorly Vista SP1 is going, does not exactly make me that happy.

XP seems to be only getting faster, Vista just aint that quick compared to it for practially everything. But you never know Vista may get up to XP speeds one day (in 5 years maybe :lol: )
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

Imagine if we could build our own DVD Players too :D
as reading how well XP and Service Pack 3 is going and how poorly Vista SP1 is going, does not exactly make me that happy.
What have you been reading?

That isn't a fair comparison btw. XP has had years of field testing, it's now 5 years old. Microsoft have pretty much all the bugs (certainly major ones) ironed out. It's now very stable, that and SP3 isn't half the Service Pack SP2 was. Likewise SP1 will be a big upgrade. Personally I wouldn't pay too much attention to talk on a "Beta" Service Pack.
XP seems to be only getting faster, Vista just aint that quick compared to it for practially everything.
XP is largely based on code that is now 8 years old (i.e - Windows 2000). It was also written for hardware released 8 years ago, it cannot take advantage of Dual Core (AFAIK) for instance. It's no surprise it whizzes on today's hardware.

Still it is impressive Microsoft claim SP3 will make XP even faster. I wonder how?

If you remember XP wasn't as fast as it is now when it was first released. XP (and 2000) are excellent OS's but the code is old. It's largely still holding it's own as programmers are still writing specifically for it, as they should until Vista gets more popular. That and finally taking the rock solid Windows NT kernel but making it actually user friendly with Windows 2000 gave them such a good product it's going to be hard for Microsoft to ever sell upgrades like they could ever again. They'll need to come up with more than Vista gives, like I said it's XP Plus. XP is Windows 2000 with a few tweaks.

Prior to Windows 2000 you had Windows 95/98 which were user friendly but boy they were unstable. The alternative was Windows NT 4.0 which was stable but boy it was un-user friendly (more so than Unix though). I don't think Windows NT 4.0 even had Plug and Play.
But you never know Vista may get up to XP speeds one day (in 5 years maybe).
It's a given it will do. PC hardware gets better all the time. It will take 3-4 years though. Probably when Windows 7 is out, which is due out in 2010 I believe. Microsoft aren't going to make the same mistake again and let an OS being out there for so long.
EvaUnit02
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 9101
Joined: 08 Feb 2005, 14:39
Location: Wellywood, Kiwiland
Contact:

Post by EvaUnit02 »

romerojpg wrote:SOUND: Creative Labs SB X-Fi Xtreme Audio 24-BIT PCI Sound Card
Congratulations, you've been scammed. :lol: The XtremeAudio is NOT a true X-fi, it's a rebadged software-driven piece of shit. Identical to other such cards like the Soundblaster 24-bit, Audigy 1 Value, etc. You would've been not much better off if you had stuck with integrated sound.
bradavon wrote:XP is largely based on code that is now 8 years old (i.e - Windows 2000). It was also written for hardware released 8 years ago, it cannot take advantage of Dual Core (AFAIK) for instance. It's no surprise it whizzes on today's hardware.
Wrong. Even NT4.0 had SMP support. Multiprocessing ain't a recent thing.
bradavon wrote:Still it is impressive Microsoft claim SP3 will make XP even faster. I wonder how?
Microsoft never said such a thing. It was claim made by an IT testing firm whom tried out early builds of Vista SP1 and XP SP3.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,13991 ... ticle.html
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

Give it up Eva. It will be considerably faster than Romero's PC and whatever you buy when it comes to PC's something else will be faster/better.

We're not all hardcore gamers or techies. I'd consider myself a techie but even I run a mid-range laptop.
Wrong. Even NT4.0 had SMP support. Multiprocessing ain't a recent thing.
I knew that but didn't appreciate Dual CPU's was the same as Dual Core. AFAIK it isn't.
Microsoft never said such a thing. It was claim made by an IT testing firm whom tried out early builds of Vista SP1 and XP SP3.
I thought I read it in some MS article, maybe not.
EvaUnit02
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 9101
Joined: 08 Feb 2005, 14:39
Location: Wellywood, Kiwiland
Contact:

Post by EvaUnit02 »

bradavon wrote:I knew that but didn't appreciate Dual CPU's was the same as Dual Core. AFAIK it isn't.
Nah, it's the same.
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

How are you finding Vista Romero? Any major problems?
EvaUnit02
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 9101
Joined: 08 Feb 2005, 14:39
Location: Wellywood, Kiwiland
Contact:

Post by EvaUnit02 »

Final SP1 is out now, but just to OEM builders and not the public. Leaked versions up now in the usual places.

I can't arsed stuffing around with torrents TBH, I'll just wait for the official public release.

Still no incentive for me to install Vista though TBH, even though I've got a DX10 card now. It plays DX9 games like a bat out of hell, and I get 20-30fps in the Crysis demo under XP so I'm satisfied.
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

EvaUnit02 wrote:Final SP1 is out now, but just to OEM builders and not the public. Leaked versions up now in the usual places.
Great. Any news of major changes? That should mean it's out soon to download.

As it's a Service Pack I'll wait for an official download. I too wouldn't mess with BT for this.
EvaUnit02 wrote:Still no incentive for me to install Vista though TBH, even though I've got a DX10 card now. It plays DX9 games like a bat out of hell, and I get 20-30fps in the Crysis demo under XP so I'm satisfied.
You must play games a lot. It seems to be a huge reason to you.
EvaUnit02
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 9101
Joined: 08 Feb 2005, 14:39
Location: Wellywood, Kiwiland
Contact:

Post by EvaUnit02 »

Braddy, you gonna make a slipstreamed disc and do a fresh installation on a clean partition?
bradavon wrote:Great. Any news of major changes? That should mean it's out soon to download.
Microsoft claims Windows Vista SP1 will provide key improvements on the security, performance and reliability of Windows Vista by providing :

* All previously released updates since RTM
* Performance and reliability improvements in core scenarios such as file copy, network browsing, and improved response time to resume from sleep.
* Support for new types of hardware, and several emerging standards.
* There are improvements to the administration experience. One of the most important changes we’re making is that BitLocker now supports encrypting for multiple volumes.

source

Most notably they've reportedly fixed the slow ass file copying bug.
bradavon wrote:You must play games a lot. It seems to be a huge reason to you.
Yes, but I don't play many bleeding edge new games (mostly critically acclaimed ones and classics) and the majority of the DX10 games still run better with their DX9 renderer and/or XP. Some slightly better visual effects ain't really worth the performance loss IMO. I do also have consoles.
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

EvaUnit02 wrote:Braddy, you gonna make a slipstreamed disc and do a fresh installation on a clean partition?
No, for two reasons:

1. I have a duff System Restore CD remember. I actually have a proper installation bootleg too but that would negate the point of going legal. I only need it for it's Repair functionality. I'd have much preferred a proper CD but you sadly so rarely get those.
2. My system is already working tip top. It was fresh back in only May so is too soon to reformat.

Slipstream is out of the question for me. I guess I could create one from my Bootleg just in case though.
EvaUnit02 wrote: * Performance and reliability improvements in core scenarios such as file copy, network browsing, and improved response time to resume from sleep.
Good. It's okay but copying files really does take too long. There is a Hotfix that was supposed to fix or help it. In my experience it did naff all.

I've also heard they've reduced the number of Admin/UAC type prompts. Which is a plus. Setting Vista to Automatically elevate UAC helps greatly but compared to XP it's still too many for my liking. You definitely learn to work with it though.
EvaUnit02 wrote:* There are improvements to the administration experience. One of the most important changes we’re making is that BitLocker now supports encrypting for multiple volumes.
Only for Ultimate users :(
EvaUnit02 wrote:Yes, but I don't play many bleeding edge new games (mostly critically acclaimed ones and classics) and the majority of the DX10 games still run better with their DX9 renderer and/or XP. Some slightly better visual effects ain't really worth the performance loss IMO. I do also have consoles.
Fair enough.

Thanks for the info on Vista.
User avatar
bradavon
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 24430
Joined: 27 Oct 2004, 20:30

Post by bradavon »

Windows Vista Security One Year Later:

http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsvistasecur ... later.aspx
Post Reply