Barack Obama's inaugaration - from 4pm BBC1

[grim_tales]

Will anyone catch this? I may watch some of it, could be history in the making I doubt I'll watch all of it though.
Let's hope Obama is a better President than Bush anyway

[bradavon]

I couldn't decide whether to record BBC News 24 or Sky News so am recording both . It's on from 4-6pm but the inauguration is at 5pm (i.e - the money shot). I'll probably just watch the last hour.

It's definitely history in the making.

Let's hope Obama is a better President than Bush anyway

He'd have to really fuck up to be worse.

[gasteropod]

They're all the same: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=vpwLdgTqlc0

[Markgway]

Watched the news headlines at 6pm - that was more than enough flag-waving guff for me. When he actually does something worth praising I'll be first in line to applaud him. Until then I reserve judgement. Remember we all thought Tony Blair was The Messiah back in 1997 and look how that turned out.

[grim_tales]

True, agreed.
I thought it was a decent speech TBH, he said a lot of good things in it.

[bradavon]

Remember we all thought Tony Blair was The Messiah back in 1997 and look how that turned out.

I know you won't agree but he did good too, as well as bad. As long as people appreciate that when slating him.

I didn't think he was the messiah btw. I was 18 back in 1997 and was way too young to understand it.

[grim_tales]

I was only 15

[gasteropod]

I was 10 - didn't give a shit then, don't give a shit now

[saltysam]

minimum wage was a good thing he brought in.

[Markgway]

I know you won't agree but he did good too, as well as bad.

You're right....... I don't agree.

I didn't think he was the messiah btw. I was 18 back in 1997 and was way too young to understand it.

I was 17 and understood perfectly.

[grim_tales]

minimum wage was a good thing he brought in.

Agree with that He also helped peace in Northern Ireland.

[bradavon]

I was 17 and understood perfectly.

But then, you are the messiah.

[Markgway]

minimum wage was a good thing he brought in.

Agree with that

Good idea in principal, but the actual minimum was lower than most people got paid anyways. You would expect Labour to have done something more radical. But we now know how much Blair and Brown cosied up to big business.

He also helped peace in Northern Ireland.

Yes. But that deserves qualification.

1. He continued a process that John Major had started (and got little credit for).

2. Peace was achieved - at least in part - by the appeasement of republican terrorists. Blair gave them almost all that they wanted - short of a united Ireland - with little initial return (the IRA still haven't disbanded and splinter groups plot away). 30 years of terror were rewarded with a say in government basically. The question is: Does the end justify the means?

[Markgway]

I was 17 and understood perfectly.

But then, you are the messiah.

Really? Sound. 8)

[Yi-Long]

Back to Barack, he's doing very well these first few days.

- Freezing all procedings on QB to give these terrorists a chance at a fair trial in a proper court.
- Promising a whole lot more transparency on goverment, including a special commision that will determine of Obama himself has to disclose certain info or not
- Salary-freeze for his White House staff...
- Complete ban on lobby-gifts

... plus probably some other stuff that has escaped me at the moment.

[grim_tales]

He said he'll close G. Bay within a (the?) year

[bradavon]

Good idea in principal, but the actual minimum was lower than most people got paid anyways.

No it wasn't.

I for example got paid £2.50 an hour around the time it came in. It was common to pay people £1-2 an hour back then.

I reckon Blair and Brown could've been the best ever and you'll still moan about them. If they're not a Torie Mark isn't interested .

The question is: Does the end justify the means?

Definitely. It couldn't happen any other way and if they were still fighting even more people will be murdered. It would solve nothing.

Should pre-terrorists be given power? Maybe not but like I said it was the only way to stop the violence.

- Freezing all procedings on QB to give these terrorists a chance at a fair trial in a proper court.

I read it was so he can appraise himself with the cases.

- Salary-freeze for his White House staff...

That is a good one.

He said he'll close G. Bay within a (the?) year

Which is good but what about all the other American military prisons the media haven't latched on to?

[Markgway]

I for example got paid £2.50 an hour around the time it came in. It was common to pay people £1-2 an hour back then.

Who would work for a £1 an hour in the late 90s? lol

You'd be MUCH better off claiming benefits.

In fact even now the minimum wage in many cases works out at only marginally more than a benefit claim (taking into account things like housing benefit, non-taxes, child support, etc). If you claim everything going (inc disability allowence, etc) you work out ahead of the min wage.

Like I said... it's a good idea to have a minimum but it needs to be more. Mind you they'd probably just put the taxes up by the equivilent which usually happens.

I reckon Blair and Brown could've been the best ever and you'll still moan about them. If they're not a Torie Mark isn't interested .

A. I'm not a Tory.

B. It's spelt T-O-R-Y

Definitely. It couldn't happen any other way and if they were still fighting even more people will be murdered. It would solve nothing. Should pre-terrorists be given power? Maybe not but like I said it was the only way to stop the violence.

There were two other things they could've tried first.

1. Wiping out the IRA. The membership of active terrorists would surely only amound to a matter of hundreds. Intelligence and direct action would've been justified at those who strike on U.K territory. Can you imagine any other country giving in like Britain did?

2. Tell them Americans to stop allowing IRA supporters to raise funds in their country. Where do you think all the monies for weapons came from?

It's hypocritical to allow Sinn Fein into parliment and then start wars across the globe. If Osama Bin Laden said he wanted to talk peace would he be welcomed?

He said he'll close G. Bay within a (the?) year

Yeah, but apparently he wants to send a bunch of them to the UK to stay. Suspects who've never set foot in this country. Why? Fuck knows. Maybe because Gordon Brown is the only one who'll bend over. I always imagine that the Americans have a good laugh at us behind closed doors.

[Yi-Long]

The reason he wants to seek asylum for some in other countries than their own, is because they might not be 'safe' when they go home.

Now, an intelligent person would ask: 'why wouldnt these people be safe!?'

Here's what happened when the USA started arresting potential terrorists:

- America offers cash for anyone who can fingerpoint a terrorist.
- Ali B. reeks money, and fingers his asshole neighbour Mohammad A. and tells the yanks he's a terrorist!
- Yankees arrest and deport Mohammad A.
- Ali B. stays behind with american dollars in his hands, a grin on his face, and steals Mohammad's shop, his stuff, his car, whatever.
- 7 years later, Mohammad gets freed from QB, innocent, and returns home.

... now guess who won't be happy to see Mohammad return to the village and tell his side of the story!?

[Markgway]

The USA created a rod for their own backs and now want to share that rod with everyone else.

How nice of them.

[bradavon]

In fact even now the minimum wage in many cases works out at only marginally more than a benefit claim (taking into account things like housing benefit, non-taxes, child support, etc). If you claim everything going (inc disability allowence, etc) you work out ahead of the min wage.

If you don't want to work there is more incentive to not work than there is. As soon as you work for any amount of money you lose your benefits, so are worse off.

1. Wiping out the IRA. The membership of active terrorists would surely only amound to a matter of hundreds. Intelligence and direct action would've been justified at those who strike on U.K territory. Can you imagine any other country giving in like Britain did?

OMG! That's Romero style madness. Murder a few hundred people, yep that will fix it. It would just start an even bigger conflict, which could very quickly get completely out of control.

I disagree the British government gave in this time. They tried the hard approach for decades and it got them nowhere. Watch Hunger if you want to see an example of the hard approach Britain tried to take in the 1980s.

2. Tell them Americans to stop allowing IRA supporters to raise funds in their country. Where do you think all the monies for weapons came from?

Agreed on that one. We've certainly given in far too easily to America over the past few years.

It's hypocritical to allow Sinn Fein into parliment and then start wars across the globe.

Definitely but they're two separate situations.

If Osama Bin Laden said he wanted to talk peace would he be welcomed?

No but would the IRA have been welcomed when the conflicts started? Not at all. The IRA conflict is much older.

[saltysam]

Whas just looking at the minimum wage, £5.73 an hour for 22 yrs and over, ,agreed,it's not enough but under the tories we wouldn't have a minimum wage and people would be forced to work for £3.50-£4 an hour that minimum rate for a 36 hour week equates to £206, rubbish for a married man but surely for a single person better than the dole surely ?

[bradavon]

Yes easily over Jobseekers allowance, which is roughly £250 Net a month.

[Markgway]

If you don't want to work there is more incentive to not work than there is.

That doesn't make any sense.

As soon as you work for any amount of money you lose your benefits, so are worse off.

Yes, obviously, but if you claim enough benefits you can amass more money than IF you work.

OMG! That's Romero style madness. Murder a few hundred people, yep that will fix it. It would just start an even bigger conflict, which could very quickly get completely out of control.

It would've gone a long way toward making the innocent people of the U.K. safer.

Unlike Islamic terrorists (thousands of whom are positioned around the globe and have a dedicated network) the IRA had only a limited number of members actively involved in terrorist activity (and again unlike Islamic terrorists these cowards were afraid to die and made sure they were far away when their bombs went off). It would have been bloody but I believe the IRA could have pretty much been wiped out or at least handicapped.

And not a few hundred PEOPLE, Brad, a few hundred TERRORISTS. We're not talking about dropping bombs on civilians. That only happens in the middle east.

I disagree the British government gave in this time. They tried the hard approach for decades and it got them nowhere. Watch Hunger if you want to see an example of the hard approach Britain tried to take in the 1980s.

No interest in seeing IRA propaganda. They should've let the guy starve. His choice. If Britian had gone in hard it would've been over whilst Tony Blair was still in University playing Air Guitar.

Definitely but they're two separate situations.

Yeah, in the Middle East Britain was following an American lead. Without Bush Britain would NOT have been involved in ANY war over there. The Americans refused for decades to help Britain with N.I. and allowed the IRA to collect funds/promote their terrorism in their country. If Tony Blair had been Prime Minister in 1964 we'd have been in Vietnam. America only "helps" when it suits. The IRA was a British problem and we failed to handle it. In the end we largely gave in and that's the ONLY reason why the IRA aren't still planting bombs under yur car. If you think that the situations are totally different ask the people of Omagh or Manchester what they think?

No but would the IRA have been welcomed when the conflicts started? Not at all. The IRA conflict is much older.

Sure, it's older. But I'd hate to think in twenty years time we'll still be appeasing terrorists. Wouldn't suprise me though.

[bradavon]

Yes, obviously, but if you claim enough benefits you can amass more money than IF you work.

Now does my comment above make sense?

No interest in seeing IRA propaganda.

You're interested in making sweeping generalisations though.

And not a few hundred PEOPLE, Brad, a few hundred TERRORISTS. We're not talking about dropping bombs on civilians.

Like it EVER works out that way. There would be mass innocent casualties.

It would've gone a long way toward making the innocent people of the U.K. safer.

Tell that to the people of Brighton.