Swordsman 2: Mei Ah Remaster (R0HK) vs Optimum (R2UK)

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tom2681
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Swordsman 2: Mei Ah Remaster (R0HK) vs Optimum (R2UK)

Unread post by tom2681 » 31 May 2006, 12:30

Minute 3. End of last shot before the credits.
HK Mei Ah Remaster:
Image

UK Optimum Asia:
Image

Minute 7. Michelle Reis praying for her horse. First frame.
HK Mei Ah Remaster:
Image

UK Optimum Asia:
Image

Minute 19. Arriving at the inn. Last frame.
HK Mei Ah Remaster:
Image

UK Optimum Asia:
Image

Minute 30. Jet jumps towards the beach. First shot of Brigitte Lin. Last frame.
HK Mei Ah Remaster:
Image

UK Optimum Asia:
Image

At the end, on the cliffside. Jet asks "who did I sleep with ?" She answers:
HK Mei Ah Remaster:
Image

UK Optimum Asia:
Image

Subtitle sample:
The "horse-grieving scene" early in the film.

Mei Ah remaster:
"-My poor horse, your death is miserable
You have contributed your life to me
How come you have to end up like this ?
I know it is hard for man to survive in this world
It is even not easy to be a horse too

-Don't be a horse again in your next life
but it's even harder to be a man

-I know that"


OPTIMUM subs:
"-My poor little dead horse.
Never any complaint all your life.
Deserted and all alone in the end.
You have been murdered without any reason.
It's not easy being a horse, let alone a man.

-Horse brother, remember not to be a horse in the next life.
You know what, being a man is worse.

-I knew that."
Last edited by tom2681 on 01 Jun 2006, 01:12, edited 4 times in total.
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Unread post by tom2681 » 31 May 2006, 17:27

Can somebody who owns the R2UK (Mark ?) or the old Mei Ah post some matching caps ? :)
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Unread post by Markgway » 31 May 2006, 18:23

I'll see what I can do.....
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Unread post by Markgway » 31 May 2006, 18:50

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
Image

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Unread post by grim_tales » 31 May 2006, 19:19

The R2 looks better than the Mei Ah IMO.

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Unread post by bradavon » 31 May 2006, 19:23

Updated. Thanks Mark.

Agreed the UK OA is better BUT the Mei Ah looks to be minutely sharper and has minutely less grain too, there is "very" little in it, from those two though.

It's missing the Orange tint, not that I care it looks awful (why add a weird Orange tint?)

@ Mark / Tom: Any chance of a sutbtitle example? Typed will be fine. It doesn't really need to be from the same scene either tbh. How bad are they Tom?

@ Tom: For a 5.1 remix how good/bad is the DTS/DD5.1 remix? Is it a disaster or a decent remix? Pretending you like Remixes for a second.

p.s - Both are £7 so that's a moot point.

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Unread post by bradavon » 31 May 2006, 19:26

Yi-Long wrote:So is the UK DVD uncut and good AV quality? How's the transfer? NTSC>PAL or Film>Pal?

There are also other Jet Li movies from OpAsia which are cheap. How's the quality on those?

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Unread post by bradavon » 31 May 2006, 19:28

I think it's "Film-PAL", this sort of thing is usually mentioned. Mark?
Yi-Long wrote:There are also other Jet Li movies from OpAsia which are cheap. How's the quality on those?
There are? Which one's?

I presume you mean Last Hero in China / Kung Fu Colt Master (called: Evil Cult in the UK)? If so those aren't OA DVDs. I hear they're decent and anamorphic but they're old DVDs and I'm sure they've bettered elsewhere.

Well in the case of KFCM anyway which has a HK Mei Ah Remaster. I don't "think" there is a better LHIC DVD.

I have LHIC and it will do for me.

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Unread post by tom2681 » 31 May 2006, 19:38

@ Mark / Tom: Any chance of a sutbtitle example? Typed will be fine.
OK, how about some of the "horse-grieving scene" early in the film ?

Mei Ah remaster:
"-My poor horse, your death is miserable
You have contributed your life to me
How come you have to end up like this ?
I know it is hard for man to survive in this world
It is even not easy to be a horse too

-Don't be a horse again in your next life
but it's even harder to be a man

-I know that"
@ Tom: For a 5.1 remix how good/bad is the DTS/DD5.1 remix?
Can't remember. I'll have to watch it on my home-cinema setup to check.
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Unread post by Yi-Long » 31 May 2006, 20:01

bradavon wrote:I think it's "Film-PAL", this sort of thing is usually mentioned. Mark?
Yi-Long wrote:There are also other Jet Li movies from OpAsia which are cheap. How's the quality on those?
There are? Which one's?

I presume you mean Last Hero in China / Kung Fu Colt Master (called: Evil Cult in the UK)? If so those aren't OA DVDs. I hear they're decent and anamorphic but they're old DVDs and I'm sure they've bettered elsewhere.

Well in the case of KFCM anyway which has a HK Mei Ah Remaster. I don't "think" there is a better LHIC DVD.

I have LHIC and it will do for me.
Thanks Brad. :)

So what UK company released KFCM and Last Hero?
And since you have Last Hero, how would you rate the AV quality? Good? Average? OK-ish?

I have the VHS of Last Hero so I've watched the movie quite a few times, and really enjoyed the movie. Didnt found it as silly as some of Wong Jong's other stuff. It might even rank among my favourite Wong Fei Hung flicks, as I felt both OUATIC 1&2 (and 3 as well) were pretty boring. I dont really care all that much about the WFH character I guess, or about Aunt Yee, or any of the other characters.

About Swordsman 2; Mei Ah seems to look better I guess. A bit sharper and brighter. The R2 seems a bit dark and dull.
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Unread post by bradavon » 31 May 2006, 20:10

Tom2681 wrote:Can't remember. I'll have to watch it on my home-cinema setup to check.
Could you have a quick gander please?

Those subs don't look to bad. I was expecting misspelling and bad grammar or punctuation.
Yi-Long wrote:So what UK company released KFCM and Last Hero?
Metrodome

Average but I'll recheck as it's been ages and I can give you a better idea now I have a HD LCD TV. I'll check later on.
Yi-Long wrote:So is the UK DVD uncut
The HK DVD according to the rear cover art is 108 minutes and the UK DVD is 104 minutes 44 seconds which with 4% off (103.68) makes it look to be proper PAL and also "likely" to be uncut:

http://www.bbfc.co.uk/website/Classifie ... EE0039ED99
Last edited by bradavon on 31 May 2006, 20:23, edited 3 times in total.

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Unread post by tom2681 » 31 May 2006, 20:15

Subtitle samples added to first post.
Could you have a quick gander please?
Yep, I'll check tomorrow.
Can't right now, there's a cat sleeping on my center speaker.
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Unread post by bradavon » 31 May 2006, 20:23

Where did you get those UK subs from? You're right the UK subs are MUCH better.

You let your cat sleep on your speaker? Fair enough. Please have a quick look (at some of the punchier scenes) and report back.

I suspect I'll get the UK DVD as those subs are much better but I am intrigued about the 5.1 remix.

I'm moving out next year and am look forward to getting a cat again. Up until a few years back I've had a cat since I was a kid but I now live next to a busy road and my last cat was run over :cry: (she was fine until she got braver and lasted a few weeks).

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Unread post by tom2681 » 31 May 2006, 20:27

Where did you get those UK subs from?
Kloofy's. I don't know if they really are from the R2UK, but I think so.
You're right the UK subs are MUCH better.
They're obviously based on the HK subs, but they make more sense.
You let your cat sleep on your speaker?
I call it "cat", but it's more like a lion. I got no choice, really. :lol:
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Unread post by bradavon » 31 May 2006, 22:54

It's a really close call for this one. On the one hand I dislike that orange tinge but on the other hand the Mei Ah is definitely sharper (the OA probably a DVD-5).

The Mei Ah is a bit to bright but then the OA is a bit to dark???

I'll probably opt for the OA though for the improved subs. Assuming they are better, Mark?
They're obviously based on the HK subs
That's no bad thing.
Kloofy's. I don't know if they really are from the R2UK
Does it say they're from the UK DVD?

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Unread post by Markgway » 01 Jun 2006, 01:02

Look at the last cap of Brigitte on the mountain. The UK is much sharper, with improved colours. I think it's the darkness which maybe disguises this in earlier caps. The Mei Ah is far too bright, glarish even. I'm happy with what I have.


OPTIMUM subs:

My poor little dead horse.

Never any complaint all your life.

Deserted and all alone in the end.

You have been murdered without any reason.

It's not easy being a horse, let alone a man.

Horse brother, remember not to be a horse in the next life.

You know what, being a man is worse.

I knew that.
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Unread post by tom2681 » 01 Jun 2006, 01:12

Thanks Mark. Comparison updated.
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Unread post by EvaUnit02 » 01 Jun 2006, 04:31

The MeiAh is less cropped, but looks like someone spilt curry on it.

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Unread post by thelostdragon » 01 Jun 2006, 11:48

The MeiAh looks much better if you ask me. Plus the subtitles are ok if you accept cheesy HK subs. They are not as bad as the ones on the initial release of "A Better Tomorrow".
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Unread post by bradavon » 01 Jun 2006, 12:02

Markgway wrote:Look at the last cap of Brigitte on the mountain. The UK is much sharper, with improved colours. I think it's the darkness which maybe disguises this in earlier caps.
Good spot there Mark. I've also just noticed looking at the same capture the rock behind looks completely smeared on the Mei Ah but on the OA it looks like rock.

But overall I still think the Mei Ah is sharper, look at capture 1.
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Unread post by Markgway » 01 Jun 2006, 12:47

bradavon wrote:But overall I still think the Mei Ah is sharper, look at capture 1.
Just brighter, I think.
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Unread post by bradavon » 01 Jun 2006, 13:57

You reckon, look at the building in the background.

I'll just wait to see what Tom thinks of the 5.1 remix before finally deciding? :wink: -

"For a 5.1 remix how good/bad is the DTS/DD5.1 remix? Is it a disaster or a decent remix? Pretending you like Remixes for a second."

Now we have a proper subtitle comparison there isn't a huge amount in it (those kloofy subs were better) but yes the OA has it.

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Unread post by tom2681 » 01 Jun 2006, 14:04

OK, here's what I think:

The Mei Ah is generally sharper in slow-moving scenes thanks to a better print. It looks soft in fast-moving/detailed scenes because of its low bitrate.

Shot 1:
The Mei Ah wins. Despite a loss of detail in the whites, shadow detail is awesome.

Shot 2:
Mei Ah wins. It's sharper and brighter.

Shot 3:
Same as shot 1. Loss of detail in the whites, better blacks. Mei Ah is sharper too, look at the trees.

Shot 4:
Mei Ah is blurry, UK is grainy. Depends on your personal preference.

Shot 5:
Fast-moving detailed scene. UK wins.

Overall I prefer the look of the Mei Ah (despite its many flaws). I think the UK disc is way too dark.

*Checking the remix*

@Brad:
There's a 2.0 cantonese track on the Mei Ah, but it's way out of sync.
About the 5.1 tracks: it's a wild remix (like lots of Mei Ah discs) with foley effects flying all over the speakers but it sounds good. The dialogue track is a little muffled, but not too bad. I think it works well, especially for a wire-fu flick. :)
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Unread post by HungFist » 01 Jun 2006, 14:18

Tom2681 wrote:
@Brad:
There's a 2.0 cantonese track on the Mei Ah, but it's way out of sync.
About the 5.1 tracks: it's a wild remix (like lots of Mei Ah discs) with foley effects flying all over the speakers but it sounds good. The dialogue track is a little muffled, but not too bad. I think it works well, especially for a wire-fu flick. :)
So, it's Optimum for me. Thanks for the info.

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Unread post by bradavon » 01 Jun 2006, 15:28

Thanks Tom

To put it in context it's not like those awful Tai Chi Master 5.1 mixes right? And the speech is ONLY coming out of the centre channel right?

I really hate it when 5.1 mixes put all the speech through all the channels.

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