I've just got banned from KFC!

Literally. Unless it Should Go Elsewhere
User avatar
Masterofoneinchpunch
King of Beggars
Posts: 863
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 19:36

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Masterofoneinchpunch » 10 Jan 2014, 19:56

I had to ask around on what happened to mark. I was finally sent a PM which posted this thread so this is my first post here.

Personally I believe his ban was a bloody disgrace. It also makes you feel that if he can get banned than anyone can (for who knows what reason.) I'm a strong free speech believer. I also believe mods should act judiciously when dealing with material that can seem objectionable to many (mark's post is pretty benign and personally I would not have done anything to it.) I'm a mod at a couple of sites and my personal feelings are that you give the users the benefit of the doubt first, suspend first way before you ban and only ban after multiple suspensions (bots do not count, get rid of advertisers right away :D.) Mark put a lot of effort in KFC.

This is the same username I use pretty much everywhere.

User avatar
RetroRobot
Flirting Scholar
Posts: 470
Joined: 03 Jan 2014, 02:30
Location: the 80's

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by RetroRobot » 10 Jan 2014, 20:27

Yeah, it was a disgrace. Haven't really posted there much since. The whole thing left a bad taste in my mouth, and I can still taste it. Maybe when I can't taste it anymore, i'll come back. Not that anyone gives a fuck.

User avatar
Markgway
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 19585
Joined: 18 Feb 2005, 02:04

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Markgway » 10 Jan 2014, 22:56

My ban has brought a couple of new users to Bullets, so that's a positive. :)
Image

Ivan Drago
Hail the Judge!
Posts: 2169
Joined: 16 Mar 2005, 23:05

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Ivan Drago » 11 Jan 2014, 07:22

I got accused of trolling at KFC today by some guy who seems to think homoeroticism means there has to be literal oral sex. Obviously he's never heard of gender theory, especially in relation to Chang Cheh. Then he calls me homophobic!
bradavon wrote:
but I guess you're more intelligence than me.

User avatar
RetroRobot
Flirting Scholar
Posts: 470
Joined: 03 Jan 2014, 02:30
Location: the 80's

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by RetroRobot » 11 Jan 2014, 09:14

LOL, yeah, I caught that. That place is becoming more intolerable everyday.

If you can't fathom a concept as simple as homoeroticism in Chang Cheh flicks, then maybe discussing kung fu cinema is not for you.

User avatar
Markgway
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 19585
Joined: 18 Feb 2005, 02:04

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Markgway » 11 Jan 2014, 10:48

Ivan Drago wrote:I got accused of trolling at KFC today by some guy who seems to think homoeroticism means there has to be literal oral sex.
You sucked his what!?! ;)
Image

User avatar
Masterofoneinchpunch
King of Beggars
Posts: 863
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 19:36

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Masterofoneinchpunch » 13 Jan 2014, 17:03

Ivan Drago wrote:I got accused of trolling at KFC today by some guy who seems to think homoeroticism means there has to be literal oral sex. Obviously he's never heard of gender theory, especially in relation to Chang Cheh. Then he calls me homophobic!
There is nothing homoerotic about Chang Cheh :)

Image
Image

At one point I was thinking about taking snapshots of all the homoerotic scenes I could think of in Chang's work, but it would be too large of a project. I'll have to find that thread you are talking about Ivan.

User avatar
HungFist
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 10405
Joined: 14 Dec 2005, 15:50
Location: Japan
Contact:

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by HungFist » 13 Jan 2014, 17:44

The thread is question:
http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/show ... hp?t=21091
Masterofoneinchpunch wrote: At one point I was thinking about taking snapshots of all the homoerotic scenes I could think of in Chang's work, but it would be too large of a project.
I'd still support that project. A big :thumbs:

I'm recalling one especially amusing bath scene in one of the Venoms films... but I can't remember in which one, or why it was amusing...

User avatar
Masterofoneinchpunch
King of Beggars
Posts: 863
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 19:36

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Masterofoneinchpunch » 13 Jan 2014, 17:56

HungFist wrote:The thread is question:
http://www.kungfucinema.com/forums/show ... hp?t=21091
Masterofoneinchpunch wrote: At one point I was thinking about taking snapshots of all the homoerotic scenes I could think of in Chang's work, but it would be too large of a project.
I'd still support that project. A big :thumbs:

I'm recalling one especially amusing bath scene in one of the Venoms films... but I can't remember in which one, or why it was amusing...
Ah, that explains it. I was looking through the more general threads. Originally when I first started watching Chang Cheh movies, I thought that maybe people were just looking into the movies and coming up with homoerotic aspects just because (reminded me of some advanced theory in literature classes). Because sometimes a cigar is just a cigar a sword is just a sword. However, the more I watched of his movies the more I thought Cheh is doing this on purpose. You just can't deny the images, the way he sets up his characters. It goes beyond homosocial aspects into his version of "the male gaze" (the male gaze is an overused concept in feminist theory of film, but it sometimes has its use.)

User avatar
Shingster
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 4104
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 11:14

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Shingster » 13 Jan 2014, 19:23

I remember when I first starting writing review for DVDTimes (now The Digital Fix) I remember reading a somewhat stuffy academic article that alleged Cheh was a notoriously closeted homosexual, so I decided to be clever and wrote a review of New One-Armed Swordsman that touched upon this and suggested there was definite homo-erotic subtext. IIRC a while later Linn Haynes pointed out that the article I'd read was complete bollocks and I had to swiftly edit most of the review! :D

I suspect the truth is more that Chang Cheh was massively influenced by Sam Peckinpah, whose films were also deeply homoerotic because they're always about male camaraderie and masculinity, and with Cheh being chinese and working in what was (and in some ways still is) a highly sensationalistic film industry these Peckinpah-esque themes were amplified greatly.

User avatar
Masterofoneinchpunch
King of Beggars
Posts: 863
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 19:36

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Masterofoneinchpunch » 13 Jan 2014, 19:42

Shingster wrote:I remember when I first starting writing review for DVDTimes (now The Digital Fix) I remember reading a somewhat stuffy academic article that alleged Cheh was a notoriously closeted homosexual, so I decided to be clever and wrote a review of New One-Armed Swordsman that touched upon this and suggested there was definite homo-erotic subtext. IIRC a while later Linn Haynes pointed out that the article I'd read was complete bollocks and I had to swiftly edit most of the review! :D

I suspect the truth is more that Chang Cheh was massively influenced by Sam Peckinpah, whose films were also deeply homoerotic because they're always about male camaraderie and masculinity, and with Cheh being chinese and working in what was (and in some ways still is) a highly sensationalistic film industry these Peckinpah-esque themes were amplified greatly.
That is were the term homosocial, which you can find quite a bit in Stephen Teo's writings, comes in handy when discussing same-sex scenes of brotherhood. It is very easy to overdue any particular cinematic reading whether it is a feminist, marxist, homoerotic, humanist etc... If you force it, it makes for bad writing. This applies to the comments I made about the cigar above. But as I said when you start to see patterns beyond just male bonding and it is part of an auteuristic style than there is something the director whether consciously or unconciously puts there.

While John Woo was highly influenced by Sam (and Chang as well), I do wonder to the extent that Chang Cheh was. You were starting to see an eclectic and auteuristic style to Cheh's work before the most influential works of Peckinpah's were made (now I'm a big fan of Ride the High Country, but this and the cut version of Major Dundee were the only major films of Sam's before The Wild Bunch came out in 1969; I'm not even sure these two came out in Hong Kong) For example: The images I posted above were from Return of the One-Armed Swordsman came out before The Wild Bunch.

I'm not saying any of this to take away anything from Cheh who is one of my favorite directors and is drastically underrated in western cinematic studies. I am not saying any of this to point to or try to question his sexuality. One can create homoerotic content and be of any orientation. I'm just writing that there is an overabundance of scenes which could be described as homoerotic.

User avatar
Markgway
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 19585
Joined: 18 Feb 2005, 02:04

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Markgway » 14 Jan 2014, 00:02

I've never found any of John Woo's work to be homoerotic. His strong belief in male-bonding is strictly one of friendship. At no point watching a film like The Killer did I think Chow Yun-Fat wanted to beef Danny Lee. The old-fashioned ideals of brotherhood are at play here; it's platonic, not sexual. I would say that goes for much of Chang Cheh's work also; however, his filmmaking style is occasionally, undeniably homoerotic, with an admiration of the partially naked male form, and a more overt physicality shared between male characters (in one of Chang's later films two men roll around the floor with each other in a way no one could deny was telling). As for the recurrence of anal penetration, that could be a repressed fear of homosexuality... but then it might just be because it's a really painful place to get speared!
Image

User avatar
Masterofoneinchpunch
King of Beggars
Posts: 863
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 19:36

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Masterofoneinchpunch » 14 Jan 2014, 00:27

Markgway wrote:I've never found any of John Woo's work to be homoerotic. His strong belief in male-bonding is strictly one of friendship. At no point watching a film like The Killer did I think Chow Yun-Fat wanted to beef Danny Lee. The old-fashioned ideals of brotherhood are at play here; it's platonic, not sexual. I would say that goes for much of Chang Cheh's work also; however, his filmmaking style is occasionally, undeniably homoerotic, with an admiration of the partially naked male form, and a more overt physicality shared between male characters (in one of Chang's later films two men roll around the floor with each other in a way no one could deny was telling). As for the recurrence of anal penetration, that could be a repressed fear of homosexuality... but then it might just be because it's a really painful place to get speared!
I would agree with that as well. Woo's interest with heroic codes of conduct (yi) and homosocial friendship (male-bonding or at least understanding) does not have the overly fascination with Saint Sebastian imagery and male physique like Chang. Woo's influence from Jean-Pierre Melville is certainly evident as well (Johnnie To's influence from him as well), though it is fascinating how much similarity there is between the three (themes not style). It is interesting to read that it took Woo awhile to state he was actually influenced from Chang (interview from Terence Chang.)

Anal impalement is never a fun way to die.

Ivan Drago
Hail the Judge!
Posts: 2169
Joined: 16 Mar 2005, 23:05

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Ivan Drago » 14 Jan 2014, 04:23

It's hard to tell with Chang exactly where he was going with putting people off the scent. In Masked Avengers, Lu Feng noticeably does his Zen with his two boy (ish) retainers, whilst all the other Masked dudes have topless women with them. This is probably the closest we actually get to a possibly gay character in a Chang film.

Two Champions of Shaolin does have very strong female characters, and that semen-like fluid from one wound (brain fluid? spinal fluid?) perhaps suggests Chang was interested in sexualising kung fu rather than necessarily making it solely homo-erotic.

Chang's dismissal of female characters riled Cheng Pei-pei during the making of Golden Swallow.

Has anyone seen a non-Chang version of the Fong Sai-yuk story where he gets stabbed in the nether-regions?

I suspect Chang may have narcisstic tendences in the way Bruce Lee and Sly Stallone have, but he expressed them through other actors. The only time he appears on screen in his Shaw work to my knowledge is in The Angry Guest, where he plays the Yakuza boss.
bradavon wrote:
but I guess you're more intelligence than me.

Ivan Drago
Hail the Judge!
Posts: 2169
Joined: 16 Mar 2005, 23:05

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Ivan Drago » 14 Jan 2014, 04:27

Shingster wrote:I remember when I first starting writing review for DVDTimes (now The Digital Fix) I remember reading a somewhat stuffy academic article that alleged Cheh was a notoriously closeted homosexual, so I decided to be clever and wrote a review of New One-Armed Swordsman that touched upon this and suggested there was definite homo-erotic subtext. IIRC a while later Linn Haynes pointed out that the article I'd read was complete bollocks and I had to swiftly edit most of the review! :D

.
Was that Stephen Teo? I'm told he reduced Chang to tears trying to get him to confess to being gay, and Mrs Chang had to boot him from the house!
bradavon wrote:
but I guess you're more intelligence than me.

User avatar
Masterofoneinchpunch
King of Beggars
Posts: 863
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 19:36

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Masterofoneinchpunch » 15 Jan 2014, 16:24

Ivan Drago wrote:
Shingster wrote:I remember when I first starting writing review for DVDTimes (now The Digital Fix) I remember reading a somewhat stuffy academic article that alleged Cheh was a notoriously closeted homosexual, so I decided to be clever and wrote a review of New One-Armed Swordsman that touched upon this and suggested there was definite homo-erotic subtext. IIRC a while later Linn Haynes pointed out that the article I'd read was complete bollocks and I had to swiftly edit most of the review! :D

.
Was that Stephen Teo? I'm told he reduced Chang to tears trying to get him to confess to being gay, and Mrs Chang had to boot him from the house!
I have heard several different versions of that story. Does anyone have any good article on that or is it more of a false story that has just got passed around?

Ivan Drago
Hail the Judge!
Posts: 2169
Joined: 16 Mar 2005, 23:05

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Ivan Drago » 15 Jan 2014, 17:36

Linn once posted something about it, but I think it may have been on Asian DVD Guide, which doesn't exist anymore.
bradavon wrote:
but I guess you're more intelligence than me.

User avatar
Markgway
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 19585
Joined: 18 Feb 2005, 02:04

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Markgway » 15 Jan 2014, 18:11

I have a rare transcript of the interview here:

Teo: Are you gay?

Chang: No.

Teo: Are you sure?

Chang: Yes!

Teo: Yes, you're sure, or yes, you're gay?

Chang: Umm...

Teo: You poof!

*CHANG bursts into tears*

MRS. CHANG (to TEO): Get the fuck out of my house, bitch!!
Image

User avatar
Masterofoneinchpunch
King of Beggars
Posts: 863
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 19:36

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Masterofoneinchpunch » 15 Jan 2014, 18:43

That would be bizarrely hilarious. What is funny is that I've heard several variations that are close to what you wrote (though place changes and Chang's answers do too.) I believe it is just one of those urban stories though someone should ask Teo. The results might strangely parallel what you wrote above.

User avatar
RetroRobot
Flirting Scholar
Posts: 470
Joined: 03 Jan 2014, 02:30
Location: the 80's

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by RetroRobot » 15 Jan 2014, 20:28

Was that story about Wang Chung standing up for CC and more or less outing him, and himself in the process, ever debunked?

User avatar
Shingster
Bruce Lee's Fist
Posts: 4104
Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 11:14

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Shingster » 16 Jan 2014, 01:34

Masterofoneinchpunch wrote:While John Woo was highly influenced by Sam (and Chang as well), I do wonder to the extent that Chang Cheh was. You were starting to see an eclectic and auteuristic style to Cheh's work before the most influential works of Peckinpah's were made (now I'm a big fan of Ride the High Country, but this and the cut version of Major Dundee were the only major films of Sam's before The Wild Bunch came out in 1969; I'm not even sure these two came out in Hong Kong) For example: The images I posted above were from Return of the One-Armed Swordsman came out before The Wild Bunch.
Yeah that's a good point, but imo you can see a clear influence from peckinpah post-Wild Bunch (particularly in New One Armed Swordsman), but you're right that themes of masculinity are abundantly clear in Cheh's pre-70s work. It's possible that he was influenced by the work of Howard Hawks as well.
Ivan Drago wrote:Was that Stephen Teo? I'm told he reduced Chang to tears trying to get him to confess to being gay, and Mrs Chang had to boot him from the house!
[/quote]IIRC it was an article from a European writer who referenced Teo's work throughout. That sounds like a great story though! :D

User avatar
RetroRobot
Flirting Scholar
Posts: 470
Joined: 03 Jan 2014, 02:30
Location: the 80's

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by RetroRobot » 23 Jan 2014, 01:08

And the hypocrisy on KFC continues. I don't post there anymore, but check in from time to time, and I saw two counts of topless women in the members gallery pics, and several counts of derogatory comments towards homosexuals and description of sexual acts within the last few days. But wait.... weren't all those things violations of the all mighty rules? What a fucking joke that place has become. I guess the rules don't apply to everyone in equal measure.

User avatar
Masterofoneinchpunch
King of Beggars
Posts: 863
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 19:36

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Masterofoneinchpunch » 23 Jan 2014, 16:20

RetroRobot wrote:... I guess the rules don't apply to everyone in equal measure.
I think that's why I was surprised by Mark's banning for that picture (though I think the main issue is do not argue with the mods -- I disagree with this since I believe in healthy arguing and suspensions before banning etc...) There has always been some topless photos there ever since I started with kungfucinema years ago which is why I was careful with certain threads when perusing around people behind me :D.

User avatar
RetroRobot
Flirting Scholar
Posts: 470
Joined: 03 Jan 2014, 02:30
Location: the 80's

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by RetroRobot » 23 Jan 2014, 17:03

Yeah, Mark spoke his mind, and that got him banned. It's not about the rules. I just find that kind of favoritism and inequality pathetic. And then lying about..... yeah, still got that bitter taste. Oh well... moving on.

User avatar
Masterofoneinchpunch
King of Beggars
Posts: 863
Joined: 10 Jan 2014, 19:36

Re: I've just got banned from KFC!

Unread post by Masterofoneinchpunch » 23 Jan 2014, 17:15

I think we need Chang Cheh to brighten our day:

Image

Post Reply