Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

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Markgway
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Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Markgway » 09 Jan 2010, 22:24

DVD Times Review:

http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content/id/72 ... piria.html

Apart from the lack of an original 2.0 stereo option this looks excellent.
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by saltysam » 09 Jan 2010, 22:28

already ordered..love this movie...
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by HungFist » 09 Jan 2010, 22:47

One of the best horror movies of all time.

But no Italian audio on this disc. Shall wait for US release.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Markgway » 09 Jan 2010, 23:56

It's an English language film. Why would you want Italian unless that's your first language?
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by HungFist » 10 Jan 2010, 00:18

Because I like it in Italian more.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Markgway » 10 Jan 2010, 12:21

Fine, but that's pretty weird.

Like me saying I prefer Gone with the Wind dubbed into German.

There's no reason for it.
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by HungFist » 10 Jan 2010, 15:09

As far as I know, Gone With the Wind isn't an Italian film taking place in Germany and starring a multinational cast most of whom are Italians except for American lead and one famous German actor, all of whom the director would like to have speak English but would nevertheless be dubbed in Italian in the film's native country.

Not so simple, you see.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by gasteropod » 10 Jan 2010, 15:22

I'm with Hung on this, I prefer Argento's films in Italian.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Markgway » 10 Jan 2010, 16:00

HungFist wrote:Not so simple, you see.
It's very simple, really. But every so often this conversation keeps coming up with a new generation of fans who don't know the facts.

ALL of Dario Argento's thrillers were intended for English language. Arguably never more so than Suspiria. Italian genre cinema (spaghetti westerns especially, but also giallo and splatter) made most of its money with exports to English speaking countries (ie. the US and the UK) but also countries which would use the English versions as basis for locally subtitled or redubbed versions. Once Upon a Time in the West for example is an Italian film that played everywhere outside of Italy in either English or with a local dub. Only in recent years have Italian dubs become popular with more pretentious viewers who mistakenly believe them to be more "authentic". This is very true of Argento's canon. Argento not only went to the trouble of hiring affordable English speaking talent to play leads, but insisted his local supporting players speak in English on set whenever possible. Only occasionally would Italian actors deliver lines in their own language, and usually it would be the ones who couldn't speak a word; with the films mostly being shot without sound there was little point going to the bother of phonetic lip-syncing. I won't go thru each film, but to take Suspiria: the three players with the most dialogue - Jessica Harper, Alida Valli, and Joan Bennett - all speak English, and all provide their own voices. This was in part at least because many scenes used production audio. It's been a while but I think at times you can tell the difference. I'm looking forward to the BD to have another listen. I know Udo Kier was dubbed, but apparently that was due to technical difficulties (he spoke good English). To present an analogy: Would you watch The Protector in Cantonese just because it's a Hong Kong film? Same goes for Suspiria. I mean, if you guys wanna watch it in Italian that's fine by me. All I'm saying is that it's not the original intended language. As long as you know that going in it's all good. Just bugs me when some say "oh, it must be Italian" and the sheep take that as gospel.
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by gasteropod » 10 Jan 2010, 16:11

I did a lot of comparing of the English and Italian audio tracks on the BDs of The Bird with the Crystal Plumage and The Stendhal Syndrome and I honestly found the Italian tracks a better experience. The English dubs make it seem like bad acting to me, and distracting.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by romerojpg » 10 Jan 2010, 16:15

You cannot get more distracting than subtitles :lol:

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by HungFist » 10 Jan 2010, 16:47

Markgway wrote:
HungFist wrote:Not so simple, you see.
It's very simple, really.
No, I meant comparing Suspiria language issue to Gone With the Wind language issue isn't so simple. Maybe I worded it a bit misleadingly. With Suspiria we have the strongest argument for English, a pretty good argument for Italian, and perhaps even a small argument for German dub. That's not the case with Gone With the Wind.

Markgway wrote: ALL of Dario Argento's thrillers were intended for English language.
Markgway wrote: All I'm saying is that it's not the original intended language.
As I said -->
HungFist wrote:all of whom the director would've liked to have speak English
I'm well aware Argento intended it to be in English. I'm watching it in Italian because I prefer the Italian track. That's also how I saw the film when I saw it for the first time. I only had the access to English track later when I bought the Anchor Bay dvd.
romerojpg wrote:You cannot get more distracting than subtitles :lol:
Many people have problems with reading and concentration. Not my fault.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by romerojpg » 10 Jan 2010, 16:51

HungFist wrote:Many people have problems with reading and concentration. Not my fault.
Never said it was your fault, but it is 100% certain that you cannot view a film as a Director intended (if you care for such things, or just want to watch it your way and see what you want) if you are busy watching subs. No matter how fast you read, you are not doing the film justice as you are being forced to look at the bottom of the frame at subs, even if it is for a second, you are still not looking at the actual film for that time.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Shingster » 10 Jan 2010, 17:03

Mark's hit the nail on the head of the English/Italian debate regarding Argento, it's pure pretentiousness that sees non-Italian fans watch the likes of Suspiria in Italian - and there's nothing wrong with that, as personal preference is vital to the individual viewer. However IF you use your own personal preference to criticise the UK release for providing only the English track on a release intended for English audiences, then you are officially being a tit! :P (Not that I'm saying anyone has criticised the UK release in this thread yet)
HungFist wrote:No, I meant comparing Suspiria language issue to Gone With the Wind language issue isn't so simple. Maybe I worded it a bit misleadingly. With Suspiria we have the strongest argument for English, a pretty good argument for Italian, and perhaps even a small argument for German dub. That's not the case with Gone With the Wind.
There isn't a particularly strong argument for watching it in Italian at all, it's an Italian production from an Italian director with a multinational cast who are speaking English for the majority of the film. Suspiria was released primarily for US audiences, not Italian and was produced as an English language film - albeit without synch-sound dialogue.

The only real argument for watching it in Italian is personal preference, and from an objective viewpoint that's no argument at all.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by romerojpg » 10 Jan 2010, 17:17

Which does the Director want the public Hearing? or has he never commented.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by HungFist » 10 Jan 2010, 17:41

romerojpg wrote:
HungFist wrote:Many people have problems with reading and concentration. Not my fault.
Never said it was your fault, but it is 100% certain that you cannot view a film as a Director intended (if you care for such things, or just want to watch it your way and see what you want) if you are busy watching subs. No matter how fast you read, you are not doing the film justice as you are being forced to look at the bottom of the frame at subs, even if it is for a second, you are still not looking at the actual film for that time.
That's true, but it's a usually it's a minimal distraction. For example in movie theatre you have much bigger distractions around you (the audience, which even when not consisting of stupid teens, is bound to cause some disturbance), and also in the film (print damage, bad actors...)
Shingster wrote:There isn't a particularly strong argument for watching it in Italian at all, it's an Italian production from an Italian director with a multinational cast who are speaking English for the majority of the film.
Yes, but I would consider the fact that it's an Italian film, and played in Italian in Italy a pretty good argument (not the best though). Also, watching it in Italian makes it feel... more Italian. And that is (one of the) the reason why many people watch Italian movies... to get the Italy experience. Suspiria is even a good film for that as there are no logical issues (that is, logically the the characters should be speaking a mixture of languages, probably mainly German. Full English audio doesn't make any more sense than full Italian audio in Suspiria's world).

btw, prefferring Italian audio is a pretty damn good argument for watching it in Italian ;) :D

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by gasteropod » 10 Jan 2010, 19:23

romerojpg wrote:Never said it was your fault, but it is 100% certain that you cannot view a film as a Director intended (if you care for such things, or just want to watch it your way and see what you want) if you are busy watching subs. No matter how fast you read, you are not doing the film justice as you are being forced to look at the bottom of the frame at subs, even if it is for a second, you are still not looking at the actual film for that time.
What a crock of shit, I don't even realise I'm reading subtitles, it's a piece of piss and just makes me feel like I understand the foreign language being spoken.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by grim_tales » 10 Jan 2010, 19:28

Exactly Gas, is Romero suggesting I watch countless HK/foreign films without subs? :roll:
Is there an argument for watching spaghetti Westerns in Italian eg TGTBATU? I've never seen that in Italian, it may sound weird though :D

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by romerojpg » 10 Jan 2010, 22:38

Grim what the fuck are you on about :lol:
gasteropod wrote: What a crock of shit, I don't even realise I'm reading subtitles, it's a piece of piss and just makes me feel like I understand the foreign language being spoken.
You are reading text, thousands of words, obviously you are going to miss loads of things onscreen, unlike a person who understands a language and does not need to look down every few seconds and can just sit back and look where THEY want to.

I do not find it hard, it is a piece of piss to read subs (when they get the speed right, which many do nopt, still), but it is nonsense to think it is the same experience as a film in your own langauge.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by saltysam » 10 Jan 2010, 22:41

romerojpg wrote:Grim what the fuck are you on about :lol:
gasteropod wrote: What a crock of shit, I don't even realise I'm reading subtitles, it's a piece of piss and just makes me feel like I understand the foreign language being spoken.
You are reading text, thousands of words, obviously you are going to miss loads of things onscreen, unlike a person who understands a language and does not need to look down every few seconds and can just sit back and look where THEY want to.

I do not find it hard, it is a piece of piss to read subs (when they get the speed right, which many do nopt, still), but it is nonsense to think it is the same experience as a film in your own langauge.
If you have the option of sub or dub on a disc (say for example A Bruce Lee movie or a Shaws) do you prefer to watch sub or dub? just curious.
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by romerojpg » 10 Jan 2010, 22:53

The sub option, cannot stand dubs (unless on animation).

Still reading some fighting films is esspecailly crappy with subs for me (Fighting can be fast, so fight films are a good example), the Shaw Brothers films for instance feature subs over the action while they are in the throws of amazing fights, they shout out the fighting styles every few seconds, some of them really do feature massive amounts of talking while doing the funky fights.

So do you watch that amazing fighting and not take your eyes off the impressive stuff? or do you look down even for a tiny amount of time every few seconds and miss some fast as a bullet action on the screen, which you will miss if you even glance down for a fraction of a second as some moves are a few frames.

It can be a pain in the arse sometimes having to read subs.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by gasteropod » 10 Jan 2010, 22:55

The thing with vision is, you can see more than just the precise thing you're focusing on. :roll:

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by romerojpg » 10 Jan 2010, 22:57

You can only put your main focus on one thing, they are eyes, not magic terminator eyes :lol:

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Markgway » 10 Jan 2010, 23:12

gasteropod wrote:The English dubs make it seem like bad acting to me, and distracting.
To be honest there is a lot of bad acting (and dialogue) in Argento films. That's not a fault of the language really.
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Shingster » 11 Jan 2010, 00:38

gasteropod wrote:The thing with vision is, you can see more than just the precise thing you're focusing on. :roll:
A very silly comment, can you read the text in this post and the one above it at the same time? They should only be a few cm apart, a good test of the limitation of your focal range.

As Romero says, your eyes can only truly focus on and interpret one point or a small region at a time, everything else in the peripheral isn't 100% clear. You may be the fastest reader or most experienced subtitle viewer in the world, but you simply cannot read a line of words at the bottom of a screen and focus properly on other regions all at once. All you can do is either read fast enough or interpret enough of your peripheral vision to achieve a good feel for the entire image - but it's just a delusion, the person watching the film without subtitles is getting a much clearer image of the whole frame because his eyes haven't focussed on a single point at any time (if he's watching correctly).

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