Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

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gasteropod
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by gasteropod » 11 Jan 2010, 02:19

I suppose we should also refrain from blinking whilst watching films then eh.

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Markgway
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Markgway » 11 Jan 2010, 13:07

Shingster is right. I've been watching subbed films for twenty years and it's impossible to focus on the entire image equally. Your eyes shift back and forth between the subs and the bulk of the picture.
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by grim_tales » 11 Jan 2010, 15:32

Bloody hell Shingster agreeing with Romero :D

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Shingster
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Shingster » 11 Jan 2010, 17:14

gasteropod wrote:I suppose we should also refrain from blinking whilst watching films then eh.
From one idiotic comment to another, has bradavon hacked your account gastero? It takes a fraction of a second to blink, about the time it takes for you to move your eyes down to the bottom of a screen where the subtitles are located - actually reading those lines takes considerably more time and concentration. I'm getting the feeling from the tone of your posts that you think we're advocating listening to dubs over subtitles, whch couldn't be further from the truth.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by grim_tales » 11 Jan 2010, 17:23

Sometimes I have to put subs on as the dialogue isnt always clear for me :oops:

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by gasteropod » 11 Jan 2010, 18:10

Shingster wrote:I'm getting the feeling from the tone of your posts that you think we're advocating listening to dubs over subtitles, whch couldn't be further from the truth.
Nah I just don't think you realise that reading subtitles isn't a distraction for some people, it's on a par with blinking in my case.

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Shingster
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Shingster » 12 Jan 2010, 00:03

Well, no point arguing with blind ignorance, so I'll just say sure you do gastero you're a regular Patrick Stewart! :P

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by gasteropod » 12 Jan 2010, 00:24

What's ignorant about my knack of reading subtitles?! If anyone's being ignorant it's you guys by thinking that everyone suffers from slow-subtitle-reading syndrome and missing half the film in the process. I think I'm the only one who can comment on my subtitle experience cheers.

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Shingster
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Shingster » 12 Jan 2010, 00:32

What's ignorant about your posts? Physiological fact!

1. You cannot read a sentence placed within the frame of a film and focus 100% on the whole of that frame. You simply must shift your focus to that sentence in order to read it.
2. You cannot shift your eyes down to the bottom of the frame and then read a sentence comprised of a few words in the same time it takes to blink.

We're not saying you're a slow reader at all, we're just saying that the very act of reading - fast or slow - means your conentration shifts, even if it's for a couple of seconds, and in that small interval you are no longer viewing 100% of the image.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by gasteropod » 12 Jan 2010, 00:47

I don't actually stare at the words to read them, my eyes scan them for a fraction of a second and my brain just knows what the subs mean. I know that sounds incredibly stupid but it's hard to put across, like I don't take time to look at each word, I just know what they mean. I don't see the words, but my brain does, bizarre maybe. This is why I compared it to blinking, because it really is that insignificant. And no I don't take illicit substances in order to perform this magical feat of human ability :lol:

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Shingster
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Shingster » 12 Jan 2010, 01:04

gasteropod wrote:I don't actually stare at the words to read them, my eyes scan them for a fraction of a second and my brain just knows what the subs mean. I know that sounds incredibly stupid but it's hard to put across
It's called reading.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by gasteropod » 12 Jan 2010, 01:14

So you know exactly where I'm coming from then, that's a relief.

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Shingster
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Shingster » 12 Jan 2010, 01:19

Everyone on these boards will have seen enough subbed films (besides Brad, who rarely seems to watch anything :P) to be the same, but the longer the line of dialogue the more involved your gaze has to be, and the longer it takes to read it. Obviously if its a very curt sentence then you're not really missing anything, but a long ream of dialogue undoubtedly compromises the amount of image you can possibly interpret.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Markgway » 12 Jan 2010, 07:00

:lol:
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by gasteropod » 12 Jan 2010, 07:28

:D gotta love this forum.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Markgway » 12 Jan 2010, 10:04

Reading this forum should be a breeze for you what with your super eyes 'n all. :cool:
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by grim_tales » 12 Jan 2010, 10:40

Sometimes I may have to go back as the subs disappear too fast or something but its not usually so bad :)

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by HungFist » 12 Jan 2010, 14:43

I don’t mean to disagree with anyone… I’ve been high for 25 hours and there’s a 7 hour discrepancy between my head and watch… but just wanted to point out one thing.

Most people here started watching movies with subtitles long after they had been introduced to cinema. But not everyone. For me subtitles have always been a part of movies, just like sound and image. Apart from a couple of cartoons, and a handful of Finnish movies, I had never seen a movie without subtitles until around the age of 16.

I was watching Indiana Jones before I could read, without understanding the dialogue. I was learning to read by watching Bond movies at the age of 6 and 7. I even switched to English subs (import HK dvds) before I had my first try with an English language movies without subs. It was difficult in the beginning, and felt strange.

To me subtitles has not been a special case. The lack of subs has been a special case.

Certainly this will affect on how people see the whole sub issue. And even though people like Mark may have been viewing films with subs for 20 years, it may not lead to similar fluency as if being born in a subtitle country like me (in Finnish TV the majority of all programs are subbed... so 8 year old kids are more familiar with subs than lack of them.

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Markgway
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Markgway » 12 Jan 2010, 15:15

What Shingster is saying is that it's physically impossible for your eyes to focus on subtitles AND the full image at the same time. Doesn't matter if you've been watching subbed movies for a hundred years. You may have gotten damn good at shifting focus but a shift is required nonetheless.
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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by grim_tales » 12 Jan 2010, 15:17

Shing's probably right, but I'm sure your eyes will be taking in ENOUGH of the image/subs to make sense of them.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by gasteropod » 12 Jan 2010, 15:36

grim_tales wrote:Shing's probably right, but I'm sure your eyes will be taking in ENOUGH of the image/subs to make sense of them.
Sense at last.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by Shingster » 12 Jan 2010, 16:24

gasteropod wrote:Sense at last.
Well this comment just proves my point! Your mind thinks it's made 100% sense of the whole image because you've been distracted by perhaps 2-3 seconds, but it's only an estimate because your complete vision has been compromised by being forced to focus on a specific area. Here's my original post, and try to pay attention this time. I'll even bold the important bits:
Shingster wrote:As Romero says, your eyes can only truly focus on and interpret one point or a small region at a time, everything else in the peripheral isn't 100% clear. You may be the fastest reader or most experienced subtitle viewer in the world, but you simply cannot read a line of words at the bottom of a screen and focus properly on other regions all at once. All you can do is either read fast enough or interpret enough of your peripheral vision to achieve a good feel for the entire image - but it's just a delusion, the person watching the film without subtitles is getting a much clearer image of the whole frame because his eyes haven't focussed on a single point at any time (if he's watching correctly).
In an artistic medium where information can come and go in a split second, the time it takes to read a line of dialogue like "the cat sat on the mat" can very subtly compromise whether you fully take in that split second information.
HungFist wrote:Most people here started watching movies with subtitles long after they had been introduced to cinema. But not everyone. For me subtitles have always been a part of movies, just like sound and image. Apart from a couple of cartoons, and a handful of Finnish movies, I had never seen a movie without subtitles until around the age of 16.
If we're gonna start getting our subtitle-viewing dicks out (j/king :D) then I could also point out that I'm probably the most experienced Anime viewer out of the regulars here, as I've chalked up thousands of hrs watching many fansubbed series where you can have as much as 3-4 forms of subtitles thrown at you at once: Dialogue subs, song subs, translated onscreen text (like signs) and translator's notes at the top - now that's a real sink or swim scenario that will most definitely remind any fan of the limitations of the amount of information their eyes and brain can take in.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by grim_tales » 12 Jan 2010, 17:30

For foreign films, unless you're a native/fluent speaker of Cantonese, French, Japanese, whatever - we're all screwed on this forum then :D

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by romerojpg » 12 Jan 2010, 17:55

I guess some of you have ever done an proper eye test then, them kind of tests show you that You cannot see things all over a screen, once your focus is on one single object, that is it, you loose most of the rest of the screen to nothingness and blur, then throw in blind spots when looking from side to side and up and down and hey you are shafted if you think you can see even a part of the screen in focus at one time. The bigger your screen, closer to a screen makes it even worse and you loose more of the screen to nothingness.

Still a little off topic, but hey I still love subbed films, I just would rather not have to "do" them sometimes.

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Re: Suspiria: Nouveaux Blu Ray

Unread post by HungFist » 13 Jan 2010, 08:36

I'm just saying I feel you guys are overstating the distraction caused by subtitles. Like I said before, the viewing experience is full of distractions and reading subs is only one of them. Even dialogue can also be a major distraction when it's unclear, even if it's in a language you understand. Often in these cases subtitles might allow you to concentrate on the action better. Even if you're staring at the middle of the screen it doesn't help if your brain is too busy processing other things.*

* Everybody has probably had the experience of trying to make out of your drunken friend's words, and not noticing the bartender was killed by an axe murderer on the background.

Some films are intended to be viewed with subtitles. Latest example: Tarantino, best known for his dialogue writing, makes a film that is 40% French, 30% German, 29.5% English, and 0,5% Italian. I doubt the director himself can understand more than 30% of the dialogue in his own film without subs.
Shingster wrote: fansubbed series where you can have as much as 3-4 forms of subtitles thrown at you at once: Dialogue subs, song subs, translated onscreen text (like signs) and translator's notes at the top - now that's a real sink or swim scenario that will most definitely remind any fan of the limitations of the amount of information their eyes and brain can take in.
I sometimes run into these scripts with live action too, and have to spend hours deleting all the "unnecessary" info.

Happens sometimes with legimate live action dvds as well. Animeigo being one example.

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