Religious intolerance in my neck of the woods....

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 02 Jul 2008, 18:21

http://www.religiouswatch.com/rw0708.htm#Barking_Mad

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Jul 2008, 19:37

I read that in the paper, utter political correctness gone mad. Fine if it was an Islamic object or turbin but it's a dog in a hat. The police are only making it worse by not brushing it away.

Why am I not surprised you know about that site

.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 02 Jul 2008, 19:47

That's bloody stupid. If it offends, don't look at the fucking advert. It's only a cute ickle puppy

tom2681 · Post by **tom2681** » 16 Jul 2008, 16:08

If those muslims don't want to look at dogs, then maybe they should go live in a place where they don't have dogs.
Scotland isn't the right country for them.

I'll call NASA and tell them there's a group of crazy muslims who want to move to the Moon.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 16 Jul 2008, 16:28

yet no-one says anything about the reverse in cornwall, what was it hm, the aquisition of an abandoned church thath asnt been used for many years to turn it into an asian community centre since there is no representation for the asian minority there and what happens? let see, racist grafiti, pigs heads nailed to the door etc etc...funny how people dont seem to care about this, yet care about what the muslims say against us...

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 16 Jul 2008, 16:33

Thats pretty shocking Shen

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Jul 2008, 19:40

I imagine it was on the local news, no? This wasn't exactly front page news Shen.

Speaking of Muslims.

Did you guys see the 16 year old held at Abograde? If there ever was evidence to show that frankly the Bush administration is no better than the terrorists they're fighting this is it.

Sure he may have been fighting against the Americans in Afghanistan and he may have killed an American but that's not justification to torture him and lock him up for 7 years without trial. It's even more shocking when you think he was just a kid when he was sent there.

He should've been put on trial by now and been put in a regular jail. It's scary to think the rule book goes out of the window when the word "terrorism" is used. He's also a native Canadian but the Canadian government don't want him back, talk about dropping your citizen in the shit when you're needed the most.

Obviously don't let him go but appreciate he's just a kid. He was crying his eyes out on the TV footage. Truly shocking.

When footage like this is shown it amazes me Bush and his cronies don't seem to get why many Muslims are so pissed off. I don't condone their actions but their motives I can understand.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 16 Jul 2008, 20:01

well given that i actually live in yorkshire and watched it on the BBC, and ITV and read it in the Independent, there aer some 7 or 8 articles on the bbcwebsite also, reporting about this i think it would class as national news. Also was Marks report front page news?

And wasnt actually the young 16yo held in Guantanamo Bay... Oh and its "Abu Ghraib" which is a prison in iraq. He was held first in the Prison in Bagram. oh and there isnt any real evidence that he was actually involved, as sources state he was captured in a bombed out compound in afghanistan and was seriously injured to the point he was near death. The "confession" was tortured out of him whislt he was still ill...hardly a sound confession now is it? As for a fair trial and treatment in Guantanamo, have you ever read about this military prison? Torture is common, and its also very common to be held there for 4 years or more without trial, or without a real foundation for your incaceration. I think high percentages of people are freed (by preassure from their countries governments) without being charged with any crime at all..

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Jul 2008, 21:04

Shen wrote:well given that i actually live in yorkshire and watched it on the BBC, and ITV and read it in the Independent, there aer some 7 or 8 articles on the bbcwebsite also, reporting about this i think it would class as national news.

I don't get your point then? They were both in the news.

Shen wrote:And wasnt actually the young 16yo held in Guantanamo Bay

Correct. My mistake.

Shen wrote:Oh and there isnt any evidence that he was actually involved, as sources state he was captured in a bombed out compound in afghanistan and was seriously injured to the point he was near death.

I never said he was

. My point was how young he was. I didn't go into the details of the case.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 16 Jul 2008, 21:19

I was refering to your point that "it wasnt exactly front page news" given that it did actually have quite a wide coverage. And also that considering your all speaking about the Muslims who opposed a dog picture, when it had less coverage than this, you all reply about how outrageous this is, but dont seem to see the other side of the coin...that was my point...

and the comments about his so called crime i made because of your statement:

"He should've been put on trial by now and been put in a regular jail. "

why should he have been put into a regular jail? given that the evidence is circumstantial at best and at worst is a fabricated story given credit through tortured confessions...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Jul 2008, 21:33

Shen wrote:I was refering to your point that "it wasnt exactly front page news" given that it did actually have quite a wide coverage.

I was referring to Mark's news not being front page news. I didn't mean "front page" literally

. My point being that both sets of news got news coverage, contrary to what you said.

Shen wrote:And also that considering your all speaking about the Muslims who opposed a dog picture, when it had less coverage than this, you all reply about how outrageous this is, but dont seem to see the other side of the coin...that was my point...

Thanks for explaining. I'm sure people would disagree with the other side too.

It's only really being discussed because it's so absurd. A dog in a hat or racist words on the side of a building, which is more dumb?

Shen wrote:why should he have been put into a regular jail?

Didn't you know they put people in jail while awaiting trial?

.

Besides I was only saying "given the fact he's not going to be let free, regular jail would be better".

Shen wrote:given that the evidence is circumstantial at best and at worst is a fabricated story given credit through tortured confessions...

I'm pretty much agreeing with you btw

.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 16 Jul 2008, 21:40

I was referring to Mark's news not being front page news. I didn't mean "front page" literally .

My point being that both sets of news got news coverage, contrary to what you said.

I didnt say that Marks news didnt get coverage, it just seemed from my own research that the racism got more...

Didn't you know they put people in jail while awaiting trial? .

Really? I think someone needs to inform the British Judicial system of this...

(yes i know we are speaking about USA here)

bradavon wrote:
shen wrote:given that the evidence is circumstantial at best and at worst is a fabricated story given credit through tortured confessions...
I'm pretty much disagreeing with you btw .

I guessed that, but you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine

if we all agreed it would make for a very boring world...

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Jul 2008, 21:47

Really? I think someone needs to inform the British Judicial system of this...

Not every in the UK gets bail but yes we all know the Bush administration is incredibly corrupt and doesn't even consider what happens at Guantanamo Bay to be terrorism.

bradavon wrote:I guessed that, but you are entitled to your opinion and I to mine if we all agreed it would make for a very boring world...

Re-read my post. You're too quick

. It was a typo.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 16 Jul 2008, 22:02

hehe sorry about that

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 16 Jul 2008, 22:28

Shen wrote:yet no-one says anything about the reverse in cornwall, what was it hm, the aquisition of an abandoned church thath asnt been used for many years to turn it into an asian community centre since there is no representation for the asian minority there and what happens? let see, racist grafiti, pigs heads nailed to the door etc etc...funny how people dont seem to care about this, yet care about what the muslims say against us...

That story was in the paper. I read it. It's wrong, of course, to persecute anyone, though clearly the choice of an abandoned church wasn't the best for another religious group to take over. You know what religious people are like? It's not all that surprising. But being offended by puppy posters? That is.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 16 Jul 2008, 22:31

I'm not denying that its very silly, but didnt other people apart from muslims complain? i thought i read something about it offended black people too given that it was a black puppy...

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 16 Jul 2008, 22:32

bradavon wrote:Sure he may have been fighting against the Americans in Afghanistan and he may have killed an American but that's not justification to torture him and lock him up for 7 years without trial.

Isn't it? Doesn't get any worse than killing someone. Would you say that if themurdered soldier (I'm assuming it was a soldier) was British and someone you knew? Yes, the whole Gauntanamo thing is fucked up, but I'm not gonna start crying for those arrested. They should try the bastard and then lock him away for the rest of his worthless life.

He's also a native Canadian but the Canadian government don't want him back, talk about dropping your citizen in the shit when you're needed the most.

Send him to Britain. We love collecting terrorist rejects.

he's just a kid. He was crying his eyes out on the TV footage. Truly shocking.

If he's old enough to take a life he's old enough to accept the consequences. He should be crying....... for the wrong he's done.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 16 Jul 2008, 22:36

Shen wrote:I'm not denying that its very silly, but didnt other people apart from muslims complain? i thought i read something about it offended black people too given that it was a black puppy...

Nah. Never heard that. It was the Muslim community or should I say a "representative" of it. I doubt the average Muslim was offended but you know certain people have their own religious or political agendas and like to stir shit up.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 16 Jul 2008, 23:56

Markgway wrote:You know what religious people are like? It's not all that surprising. But being offended by puppy posters? That is.

Yep, most of them are fruitcakes who are so blinded by tunnel vision.

Markgway wrote:Would you say that if themurdered soldier (I'm assuming it was a soldier) was British and someone you knew?

The former is tough question for anyone to answer. Probably not but it's ultimately an impossible question to answer until I'm in that situation.

As to being American. I couldn't give two hoots.

I'm not a patriotic guy. That's nothing against The UK, just the concept of putting some folk higher up than others just because you happen to live n the same country as them has always struck me as bollocks. I'd not know them any better if they were American, British or Swahili.

Markgway wrote:Yes, the whole Gauntanamo thing is fucked up, but I'm not gonna start crying for those arrested. They should try the bastard and then lock him away for the rest of his worthless life.

A: The crucial point here is "being tried", exactly!
B: It's worth putting into context the age of the kid when you read my comments. If he was an adult when he did what he'd done I'd be saying something different.

Markgway wrote:If he's old enough to take a life he's old enough to accept the consequences. He should be crying....... for the wrong he's done.

How young would you go though? A 5 year old is capable of killing someone. Should they be treated the same way?

I guess ultimatley it comes down three things:

1. They're being tortured and Bush goes on about "the morale high ground".
2. There is assurance they'll ever be tried. That just wouldn't happen if they weren't suspected of being terrorists.
3. And in this case he was only 16 when arrested. That at least should be taken into account.

Shen · Post by **Shen** » 17 Jul 2008, 00:05

actually he was 15 when he was detained in Bagram

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 17 Jul 2008, 13:03

I'm not saying America has the moral high ground. But anyone who commits murder doesn't deserve any sympathy. Yes, he should be tried. In principal I agree with you. But unlike you I don't feel sorry for him in the slightest. If he was 15 he knew exactly what he was doing. Not many 5 years olds out firing AK-47s -- even in Afghanistan!

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 17 Jul 2008, 17:40

Markgway wrote:I'm not saying America has the moral high ground.

Bush is, not you.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 18 Jul 2008, 09:27

He should be tried, and locked away IF he is guilty, but not locked away without being tried! (IMO). Yes he killed someone which is heinous and for that itself he deserves no sympathy. But whats the problem with gathering evidence and trying him, THEN locking him up?