Teacher jailed for naming Teddy Muhammed!

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Yi-Long
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Post by Yi-Long »

grim_tales wrote:I meant members of the religion can laugh at themselves, sorry for the bad wording. :)
As I listed, Woody Allen, Father Ted,... Omid Djalilli? He's funny :D
Islamic people can also laugh at themselfs and even about their religions, when the jokes are funny.

The problem is, that you look at their reaction at western 'humour' that's supposed to be funny, but more often than not is quite insulting, and degrading. Think of pictures of Muhammad fucking a goat etc.
That humour is only funny for racist biggots.

It's pretty normal that muslims dont find that funny, just as Christians wouldnt find it funny if we would depict Mary as whore, or Jesus as a blabbering idiot.
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Yi-Long
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Post by Yi-Long »

Markgway wrote:
That said: about 95% of the time when there's an act of terrorism or barbarism connected to religion that religion will undoubtedly be Islam. So clearly something is awry and it needs sensible Mulsims to dicate the status quo in these Middle Eastern countries (that's if they don't get executed or jailed first).
That's only logical, cause terrorisme of the only way these people can fight back. I'm not even sure if many of these things the western papers CALL terrorisme, ARE terrorisme.

To me, terrorisme means it's aimed at helpless, innocent people. But the western media also label every attack on western army troops etc as 'terrorist attacks'. Yet when Israel bombs innocent civilians, it's called a 'millitary action'.

But like I said, 'terrorisme' is their only weapon. The west have long-range missiles, airplanes that can bomb from 5 km's above, tanks, etc etc. Terrorists dont have all that so they can't fight 'fair' (bad choice of word, cause obviously they are ona huge disadvantage as they are) so they can only deal out blows by being 'sneaky' and mean.

Awww shit... I really didnt wanna get involved into this whole thing. Damn Grim and his goodhearted dumbyness that I feel to teach. I cant help it. I'm like Yoda to Luke Skyw..... ehm, nah...actually, I'm like Yoda to Yoda's goldfish.

:D
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Shen
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Post by Shen »

bradavon wrote:
Shen wrote:Christians...hmm...Ireland? a full religious war with many many casualties.
That was centuries ago, it's not the same. If it were I'd have included The Crusades of all things. The IRA itself was about freedom for Ireland. It's not the same thing.
my dear brad do you actually know your history? i was referring to the conflict between protestants and catholics that took place only a couple of decades ago in its fullest, and still is a conflict on going today in some parts of ireland. i know that for a fact it was not cenutries ago, because my cousin served there during the worst time...

and did you actually read my damn post? i even emboldened my opinion for crying out loud. "I agree it is a rather excessive punishment" i do not agree with the pusishment and the new calls for execution is over top by a long way.

I'm done with this topic, seriously, i tried not to get involved but i felt i had to rectify your conceited assumptions that it is just Islam that is a violent religion these days....
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Post by bradavon »

thelostdragon wrote:Are you being serious?
You quoted half my sentence. The IRA were first and foremost about freedom of all of Ireland and not a religious movement, certainly not in the same way radical Muslims are anyway.
Markgway wrote:That said: about 95% of the time when there's an act of terrorism or barbarism connected to religion that religion will undoubtedly be Islam. So clearly something is awry and it needs sensible Mulsims to dicate the status quo in these Middle Eastern countries (that's if they don't get executed or jailed first).
That sums it up well.
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Post by romerojpg »

Shen nearly all religions seem to have some violence in them, some just stick out far more than others. I guess when some are constantly blowing things up and killing in the name of a god etc.. they get our eyes looking at them the most.

Its always been like that for thousands of years, always will be sadly.



Some people just enjoy the chaos, and even the killing saldy and are not even religious, they just love to get stuck in and get away with it in the name of religion.

I guess the IRA are a prime example of that, some of them loved bombing for no reason apart from the high and chaos, and were even let out of jail even after maiming and killing people just becuase they said they would not do it any more becuase the cause was over.

They were criminals, they never should have been let out of prison ever.
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Post by bradavon »

There is always a reason Romero. Obviously the IRA were terrorists who were no better than Al Quada but they did have their reasons.

Ironically Northern Ireland has ex-Terrorists now running Northern Ireland. The deputy First Minister was himself an IRA member. Still it's better he's now second in charge peacefully than blowing people up.
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Post by bradavon »

OMG it's utter madness in the Sudan, there are more mass protests.

They're saying she was teaching hatred of the prophet Muhammed. They're considering it defamation of Islam. WTF???

It is sad radical loons like this give the entire Muslim following a bad name.
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Post by Markgway »

Yi-Long wrote:[To me, terrorisme means it's aimed at helpless, innocent people. But the western media also label every attack on western army troops etc as 'terrorist attacks'. Yet when Israel bombs innocent civilians, it's called a 'millitary action'.
True. Terrorism attacks innocents and non-combative military personnel (ie. peacekeepers). If the attacks are against armed forces amid a struggle then it's an act of war not terrorism.
But like I said, 'terrorisme' is their only weapon.... Terrorists dont have all that so they can't fight 'fair' so they can only deal out blows by being 'sneaky' and mean.
Yeah, I'll be crying myself to sleep for them tonight.
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Post by thelostdragon »

bradavon wrote:It is sad radical loons like this give the entire Muslim following a bad name.
They don't.

Only ignorant fucks would apply this to the entire Muslim following.
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Post by Markgway »

bradavon wrote:You quoted half my sentence. The IRA were first and foremost about freedom of all of Ireland and not a religious movement, certainly not in the same way radical Muslims are anyway.
I never said they were the same as Muslims, but to say their cause wasn't religious is nonsense. The IRA were Catholic bigots of the lowest order. The majority of Northern Ireland was protestant and wanted to remain a part of the UK. The IRA didn't give a fuck about these people.
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Post by bradavon »

Most people will though, don't you think?
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Post by thelostdragon »

bradavon wrote:Most people will though, don't you think?
So what is the logical conclusion? Most people are ignorant fucks. I always knew I was right about this, no matter what subject they were being ignorant about. :wink:
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Post by bradavon »

Yes most people are ignorant fucks (I don't exclude myself from that statement, about certain things). Most people don't have a clue about anything more than 2 metres in front of them. Most people don't vote. Most people don't have a clue about current affairs.

Many are not but the majority yes.
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Post by grim_tales »

Yi-Long wrote:
grim_tales wrote:I meant members of the religion can laugh at themselves, sorry for the bad wording. :)
As I listed, Woody Allen, Father Ted,... Omid Djalilli? He's funny :D
Islamic people can also laugh at themselfs and even about their religions, when the jokes are funny.

The problem is, that you look at their reaction at western 'humour' that's supposed to be funny, but more often than not is quite insulting, and degrading. Think of pictures of Muhammad fucking a goat etc.
That humour is only funny for racist biggots.

It's pretty normal that muslims dont find that funny, just as Christians wouldnt find it funny if we would depict Mary as whore, or Jesus as a blabbering idiot.
True... I don't find THAT funny as the intention sounds JUST to cause offence. That was in the Jerry Springer Opera, which wasnt all that funny, but I found some other parts funny.
But say, the Muhammed cartoons made a serious point and poked fun at TERRORISTS.
But Omid is funny as he pokes fun at how the West sees Iran (I think). We find it funny to portray Bush as being thick as pigshit, I doubt he finds that funny. Isn't funny in the eye of the beholder? :)
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Post by grim_tales »

I just heard the teacher has been pardoned by the President of Sudan.
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Post by Markgway »

Good for the Teacher, but it makes Britain look very weak.

We had to send a couple of Muslims to grovel on our behalf, whilst pretending they weren't acting on behalf of the government.

Embarrassing really.

We should have acted strong from the very beginning and threatened to cut off the ludicrous amount of financial aid we give them if she wasn't released immediately unharmed.

Instead we had this charade to placate a thug regime.
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Post by Yi-Long »

Mark. If you are gonna threaten fanatics, you'll only make them more fanatic. If their goverment then gives in, all hell could break loose.

If you bring them back to reasoning level, and get to talk to and about eachother as human-beings, in cases like this, you'll probably have more success.

Occasionally threatening is the right way. Like when someone is kidnapped and the local goverment isnt doing enough to get the victim back. In such a case it's better to pile up some pressure and hopefully that goverment will now it IS serious, and (also in fear of losing face, with worldwide media watching) will go harder after the kidnappers.
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Post by bradavon »

Markgway wrote:We had to send a couple of Muslims to grovel on our behalf, whilst pretending they weren't acting on behalf of the government.
WOW talk about a racist statement. You do realise Britain has a Muslim population too, right? They're as British as you and I. I guess you don' think that.

The Sudan has proven very well over the past week it's deeply a Muslim country, sending Muslim's was very much the sensible thing to do. You make out they're unqualified when clearly they're not, they got her released.
Markgway wrote:We should have acted strong from the very beginning and threatened to cut off the ludicrous amount of financial aid we give them if she wasn't released immediately unharmed.
They did threaten to cut aid actually but if you consider in just a week from being sent to jail she was released that would've been extreme overkill.

Considering she was in the situation she was very much the right thing to do to let the Sudanese trial system to go through a normal process. Which happened and then they stepped in to get her released.

That and as Yi correctly points out going in heavy with fanatics will just make it way worse.
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Post by grim_tales »

Bit harsh and unfair to threaten to cut off aid, no? :?
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Post by bradavon »

Actually it may have been over the Sudanese involvement in violence not this case in particular. I don't think it would've been harsh per say the British government should look after it's people before anyone else's.
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Post by Markgway »

Yi-Long wrote:Mark. If you are gonna threaten fanatics, you'll only make them more fanatic. If their goverment then gives in, all hell could break loose. If you bring them back to reasoning level, and get to talk to and about eachother as human-beings, in cases like this, you'll probably have more success.
Do they deserve to be treated as humans? How can you reason with people who want to jail/lash/execute a woman for naming a Teddy Bear. It's a fucking Teddy Bear!! It's not like she pissed on the Quoran in public. And even if she did that wouldn't warrant the kind of sickening sentences the extremists want. The only reason these people can exist is because the stupid morons in the British government pay ludicrous amounts of aid to a country which hates us. It's like giving someone the money to buy a brick to throw throught your window. Makes no sense. All this has done is make Britain look weak in the eyes of the Sudanese and the rest of the world. D'you think anyone out there is thinking "hey, top diplomacy, chaps!!"? The only way Britain can gain any credibility back is to cut Sudanese aid until they issue an apology and guarantee the safety of our foreign nationals from further intolerence. But would you expect such a bold move from a spineless twat like Gordon Brown...??
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Post by Markgway »

bradavon wrote:WOW talk about a racist statement. You do realise Britain has a Muslim population too, right? They're as British as you and I. I guess you don' think that. The Sudan has proven very well over the past week it's deeply a Muslim country, sending Muslim's was very much the sensible thing to do. You make out they're unqualified when clearly they're not, they got her released.
Just when I think you can't get any dumber or more infuriatingly PC, you post an offensive remark about me, accusing me of racism, without any foundation. If it had come from anyone else I'd have been upset, but seeing as it's from an ignorant lefty who thinks its OK to insult fellow board members, as long as he's being "right on", I'm not. I'm well aware that there are British Muslims, thanks. I had actually noticed since I don't live my life in a bubble. I grew up with Muslim friends (not that I should have to qualify myself to you). Sending Muslims was an act specifically designed to placate the Sudanese. They didn't happen to pull these two guys' names out of a hat. Rather than send two British diplomats, they sent two "MUSLIM" diplomants (who happened to be British - that was secondary). They didn't have to be Muslim to the job, it was merely a concession that further showed the kind of weak state the UK government is in. By sending Muslims it's like saying that it's the responsibility of Muslims to sort this mess out. Why? If the Muslim faith isn't to blame they shouldn't have had to send Muslims to sort it out. Why not send LD? He's Muslim. They'd listen to him, no? That's my point you muppet!
They did threaten to cut aid actually but if you consider in just a week from being sent to jail she was released that would've been extreme overkill.
Britain owes Sudan nothing. They should be on their fucking knees in gratitude at the hundreds of millions they're given. How else could they fund their limos? Yet how do they repay us? Threaten to jail (or worse) one of our citizens over a minor cultural faux pas. Just imagine the uproar if Britain did something like that? You can hardly jail terrorists in this country never mind malicious Teddy-namers.
Considering she was in the situation she was very much the right thing to do to let the Sudanese trial system to go through a normal process. Which happened and then they stepped in to get her released.
All that does is give their barbaric system a credence it doesn't deserve. These people have appalling human rights records (mostly against their own people - yes, Brad, Muslims!!) and their judicial system is a sick joke. We're not talking about someone accused of murder or rape... but naming a bear, which she didn't even do - the kids did (I guess they haven't been brainwashed enough yet?)
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Post by bradavon »

Britain owes Sudan nothing. They should be on their fucking knees in gratitude at the hundreds of millions they're given. How else could they fund their limos? Yet how do they repay us? Threaten to jail (or worse) one of our citizens over a minor cultural faux pas. Just imagine the uproar if Britain did something like that? You can hardly jail terrorists in this country never mind malicious Teddy-namers.
I was actually in agreement with you that we owe nothing to Sudan if you bothered to read the rest of my comments. I differ is in my response to how it was dealt with after the fact.
Just when I think you can't get any dumber or more infuriatingly PC, you post an offensive remark about me, accusing me of racism, without any foundation.
You were the one making a racist remark. I doubt it was meant that way but it certainly reads as if you're being racist. "We had to send a couple of Muslims to grovel on our behalf" if that isn't racist I don't know what is.
Rather than send two British diplomats, they sent two "MUSLIM" diplomants.
You don't think Muslim fanatics would listen to Muslims more?
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Post by Yi-Long »

Markgway wrote:
Yi-Long wrote:Mark. If you are gonna threaten fanatics, you'll only make them more fanatic. If their goverment then gives in, all hell could break loose. If you bring them back to reasoning level, and get to talk to and about eachother as human-beings, in cases like this, you'll probably have more success.
Do they deserve to be treated as humans? How can you reason with people who want to jail/lash/execute a woman for naming a Teddy Bear. It's a fucking Teddy Bear!! It's not like she pissed on the Quoran in public. And even if she did that wouldn't warrant the kind of sickening sentences the extremists want. The only reason these people can exist is because the stupid morons in the British government pay ludicrous amounts of aid to a country which hates us. It's like giving someone the money to buy a brick to throw throught your window. Makes no sense. All this has done is make Britain look weak in the eyes of the Sudanese and the rest of the world. D'you think anyone out there is thinking "hey, top diplomacy, chaps!!"? The only way Britain can gain any credibility back is to cut Sudanese aid until they issue an apology and guarantee the safety of our foreign nationals from further intolerence. But would you expect such a bold move from a spineless twat like Gordon Brown...??
I'm not saying they are right, or that they 'deserve' to be treated as humand when they dont behave like humans. I strongly disagree with these idiots who are calling for a death penalty over a teddybear whose name might be insulting to muslims (according to some fanatics)

I'm saying that threatening in a case like this wont solve anything, and will make matters worse. Not just for the woman who's held in prison, but also for the goverment which could get overthrown by these radicals, and also for the huge majority of NORMAL people that live there and dont agree with these fanatics. You would have huge riots and attacks on ambassies and 'western' people etc.

So it's better to stay humble, keep explaining it was a foolish mistake by a good woman and it will never happen again, and just calm everyone down.

In other cases, threatening DOES work, even when dealing with terrorists or extremists. This just isnt one of those cases.
Right now, the woman will be freed and on her way back to England. So mission accomplished. Everyone has gotten a good scare, but no lifes were lost.
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Yi-Long
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Post by Yi-Long »

bradavon wrote: You were the one making a racist remark. I doubt it was meant that way but it certainly reads as if you're being racist. "We had to send a couple of Muslims to grovel on our behalf" if that isn't racist I don't know what is.
I wouldnt call it racist perse. It's just poorly worded and thus it sounds degrading towards muslims.
It sounds bad, I agree. I do understand what he's trying to say, but I dont agree that sending muslims to do our talking for us is a sign of weakness. Muslims are as much part of our society as you and me, and if they can and are willing to help in cases like this, then that's all good, right!? Why would their help be looked down upon, or why would we feel lesser about ourself for accepting their help?

Wasnt Muhammad Ali used to retrieve US soldiers from Iraq back in the 90's?
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