Teacher jailed for naming Teddy Muhammed!

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saltysam
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Teacher jailed for naming Teddy Muhammed!

Post by saltysam »

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Post by romerojpg »

Only ignorant brainwashed morons would say that is justice. Plenty of em out there.

Been following this for a while now, you gotta love it.

Does not beat the woman who got 40 lashes (I think it was 40) for being gang raped. Way to go, at least they did not stone her.
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Post by grim_tales »

Indeed. I'll raise you a WTF :? Muhammed is a very common name for Muslim boys :?
I'm sure the teacher didnt mean to cause offence.
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Post by bradavon »

The Sudan practises Shariah Law, that says it all really :roll:

It was 40 lashes, jail or a fine.

It's no wonder so many people think aspects of Islam are inherently stuck in the 1700's. Oh wait aspects are :roll: . It's 2007 and physical violence is acceptable? Way to go! Sending someone to jail for naming a teddy bear, way to go!

This is especially wrong when the woman herself wasn't Muslim and isn't a native of the Sudan.

I can see why people could take offence to it, they named an "object" a sacred name. I'm not saying I think it's remotely acceptable I can just see their point of view, but in a normal society she'd at WORST be fired.

As well as the teacher it is the very Sudanese children who're suffering. They don't understand why their teacher they had a fondness has now gone and has been sent to jail.

The Sudanese people also suffer. This will send a strong message to Westerners for years to come "Don't visit or work in The Sudan". They will suffer in many more ways than they imagine, or probably do but cannot see behind their narrow minded and ignorant views.

She should be praised for working in a country so different from her own, not sent to jail. I'm sure they need skilled workers.

In Thailand you can be arrested for saying even the slightest thing against the Monarchy. Remember that Ex-pat who was sent to jail for something crazy like 10 years for urinating on a statue of the king. It was pretty fucking dumb of him but 10 years???

Also in Thailand people would take offence if you said or eluded to the fact you're talking to dogs or dogs are your friends. This is because a dog is considered a lesser being. You wouldn't certainly wouldn't be arrested for that though.
Last edited by bradavon on 29 Nov 2007, 20:38, edited 1 time in total.
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grim_tales
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Post by grim_tales »

She should be respectful of Sudan's customs, but as the link pointed out, different people have different opinions on whether a teddy can be called Muhammed - eg there was a toy bear called Adam the Prayer Bear, and another person said many Muslim children will give their toys names of the Prophet & his wives.
I'm sure she meant no offence or malice so jail is OTT :roll:
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Post by bradavon »

grim_tales wrote:She should be respectful of Sudan's customs
Agreed but as a foriegner it can be so easy to cause offence without knowing. Many countries have so many more "rules of culture" than many Western cultures do. Of course you need to do some homework but even so.

In a Shariah law country I bet there is an absurd amount of "rules". Pot quiz which of the following could cause offence in Thailand? -

Whistle
Put your feet up
Use your feet to shut the door/move something
Step on a coin/bank note
Kiss in public
Touch someone's head without prior consent (except family)

Answer all of them.

Putting your feet up or using your feet to shut the door etc... is a big NO NO. It's an offence to step on a coin/bank note as you could be stepping on the king. I've done that one when I dropped a coin. I realised but it was to late by then. Thankfully as a Westerner it was brushed off.
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Post by romerojpg »

The really stupid thing is SHE did not name the bear.

The Children of the class did.

Some ignorant inbreds want the children punished as well :roll: you could not make this shit up if we tried.



Punish criminals who do crime like rape, theft, killing etc.. I dont have much pity for them.

The pathetic thing is Hundreds of thousands of Musilims called Moohamid are criminal scum who comit evil acts every day. Try dealing with them before the minor non crimes.

We send these idiots hundreds of million in aid every year (our tax payer cash!), yet they waste their own cash with joke trials like this. No wonder they keep the people under such a evil sadistic, pig ignorant rule of religion.


I am off to bid on this evil named Bear on Ebay. Try locking me up you scumbags!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0192422059
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Post by slasher13 »

Bloody hell I'm agreeing with Romero on this ;) :D

At the end of the day, Shariah law applies to Muslims. Ask any muslim in this country, and they think the whole thing is crazy, as we think that a children naming the bear Muhammed is showing love for our prophet. I think there is something else which is not explained, poss some one has it in for that poor teacher, and this is going way out of control. The laws are there for punishing criminals. Teachers and Muslim alike over here, have said there the teacher did not break any laws, it is something else at work here.
Bradavon wrote:It's no wonder so many people think aspects of Islam are inherently stuck in the 1700's. .... It's 2007 and physical violence is acceptable?
Whatever, Media does have an hand in stirring up certain stories, not this one, but some in the past. Plus people only look at one point of the religion without seeing the whole arch of the religion. You could apply this logic on all religion and culture.
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Post by romerojpg »

Many, if not all the UK Muslims I have heard and seen in the media and news seem to be in shock over this (and many other things like this). I guess once you are far away from that place its hard to think exactly like that. The only people seeming to agree with it are from the place of origin it seems, the Hardliners so to say and the people who only know that way of thinking.

Some comments on even the BBC site from certain places in the world really do seem scary, they think she has been underpunished and are going to take matters into their own hands! The sad thing is this is far from over it seems and the papers and media in The Sudan have raged quite a little hate campaigne agaisnt the woman, and say its a pre emtive strike against their religion! nice. They have handed out large amounts of mail and are drumming up peope for a march on the prison! jeez, talk about out of control.

The worst thing in my mind is, remember the people who get far worse treatment every day in the Sudan. They dont have the media behind them, and they get far, far worse punishment than this woman got thats for sure. Countless people disapear or are killed over there, none of which gets into the news at all to be honest.

The government needs shutting down and religion needs to stop being the way for the law to be done. The law and religion need to be seperate.
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Post by bradavon »

romerojpg wrote:The really stupid thing is SHE did not name the bear. The Children of the class did.
Not quite. There were 3 names to pick from (presumably chosen by the teacher) and they chose Muhammed.
romerojpg wrote:Punish criminals who do crime like rape, theft, killing etc.. I dont have much pity for them.
The trouble is the news said the punishment is usually done minutes after the sentence. What if they're innocent? As in women getting lashings for being raped, because "obviously" it was the woman's fault, because all men are born weak, please!
I am off to bid on this evil named Bear on Ebay. Try locking me up you scumbags!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0192422059
WTF! Where did you find that? :D
At the end of the day, Shariah law applies to Muslims.
There is something deeply wrong with society to even be practising Shariah law in 2007. Maybe it has it good sides but boy it has some evil sides to.

Lashing anyone is wrong in so many ways. Granted I can see why people may want to lash a "proven" cold blooded murder or rapist but the trouble is as soon as you make it allowed it goes overboard and you give lashings to anyone who has done wrong.

Including the wife of a wife beater who murdered her husband getting lashed. UK law tends to come unstuck here too.
slasher13 wrote:Whatever, Media does have an hand in stirring up certain stories, not this one, but some in the past. Plus people only look at one point of the religion without seeing the whole arch of the religion. You could apply this logic on all religion and culture.
True but it's hard not to take such a view when it does "seem" to be only Islam which has such outdated views.

Taking something entirely different, just look at all the mass protests worldwide about that Danish comic book. They were worldwide and probably weren't even seen by most people who complained.

Tell me the last time the Jewish, Christian or Buddhist faith has been so violent in this way? I'm sure they have but not recently or so often. You don't hear Christian's saying "My Christian brothers". I've never understood that one myself. A British Muslim has never met a Sudanese Muslim but they're brothers, O-kay!

I'm not going to discuss cultures as that's even more diverse. There are a lot more cultures than religions and it would be much harder to dissect those. I'm sure Islam is a very deep and important religion as you're eluding to but so many Muslims are really asking to have a bad reputation when they do stuff like this.
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Post by grim_tales »

IMO it was really just a misunderstanding by the teacher :? I understood it as they were naming the bear after someone at the school called Muhammed, not the actual Prophet :? There are many different opinions, the BBC link has someone saying Muslim children, like "children everywhere" will name their toys after what they like, including names of the Prophet. So what's up with that? :? But some say it is not all right.
Was there ever an Arab version of Playschool? Or did I just imagine a satirical skit?
It was more a misunderstanding I think, the teacher was said to be inciting hatred WTF :?
Why are some people so touchy? Other religions can laugh at themselves.
Woody Allen, Father Ted. The Vicar of Dibley...?
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Post by slasher13 »

There is something deeply wrong with society to even be practising Shariah law in 2007.
The same could be said about our laws now with the new terrorist laws in place. Plus some countries mix Shariah laws with their own laws, so it is not the true law. Such places like Saudi Arabia, but the news will not tell you this
Tell me the last time the Jewish, Christian or Buddhist faith has been so violent in this way?
Jewish: So Israel has done nothing?

Christians:
The National Liberation Front of Tripura is a Fundamentalist Christian militant group in India, demanding a separate Christian state. Allegedly funded by the Baptist Church of Tripura, it is accused of ethnic cleansing[11] and bombings that have killed hundreds, as well as forcing gunpoint conversions. They were declared a terrorist organization under the Prevention of Terrorism Act in 2002
Buddhist:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 971272.ece
I've never understood that one myself. A British Muslim has never met a Sudanese Muslim but they're brothers, O-kay!
Brotherhood, and under the eye of Islam, everyone is the same.

BTW Sudan is the only country who applies Shariah law to non-muslim
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Post by Shen »

im reluctant to get into this debate, but here's a thought that occured to me, When foreign people come here, we expect them to understand our cultures and laws, and punish them accordingly when they break them...so isnt it slightly hypocritical to see one of us going to another country breaking the laws and being punished and then whining about how unfair it is? yes, i agree it is a rather excessive punishment. But, i've always figured that if you go to another country to live, work or even visit, then you should understand and know their culture and laws and try to abide by them as you would in your own country. (sure the naming of a teddy bear wouldnt seem offfensive, but its personal belief, i guess if one parent was offended by it)

and nice quotes Slasher...why do people assume that Islam is the only religion to be violent and commit terrorist acts? its just that they are shown more in the news. Hell our country and the US even SUPPORTED the Isreal attacks. Christians...hmm...Ireland? a full religious war with many many casualties.
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Post by romerojpg »

Its kicked off over there now, a fair few hundred of them religious idiots have started kicking up outside the prison asking for her to be Executed :roll: get a grip on life you sad idiots. If god wants her punished he will do her in himself. But thats never gonna happen. Why not spend your time trying to improve the appauling country they live in.


We may expect people who come into the UK to stick to our laws yes, but most could not give shit about our laws anyway look at the scum coming into the UK now.

I dont think anyone here is hypocritical, theres justice for certain crimes and some crimes deserve more punishment, but its obvious when some places just go way to far. Keep the really nasty punishment for the really nasty criminals I say. An Old woman steals an apple, becuase your daughter is starving to death, so they chop off the hands of the thief? ignorant law, and anyone with a brain can see that. They are behind the times, they need to get out of the dark ages and start getting with a little thiong called "thought".

The sheep number of people they kill, and kidnap shows you how much of a joke all their laws are. When you execute anyone for speaking out you know that country is beyond insane.

Our laws are 100 times more realistic, and aproprate than the savage countries run by dictators and evil people who just want more power, like The Sudan. Its one of the most evil countries in the world, if anyone thinks its not then they are blind, or have been mind wiped like most the people there.


I dont really care what a countrys laws are if they are joke (we in the UK also have many joke laws, but nothing compared to others), esspecially when they are ignorant ones like in certain countries. They make up laws which are basically bullshit, just to keep a religion or certain persons in power and to give them more power over their underlings who they brainwash constantly, and if they dont brainwash them they then they ussually stamp them down. Esspecially the religious laws.

But there is nothing we can ever do about any of this, ever. I expect in 1000 years time they will still be stuck in the past and wont have moved on one bit and will still be publically flogging ladies for looking at a man not married to her, even if she is being raped by 8 evil scumbags.
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Post by grim_tales »

Bloody hell I'm agreing with Romero :D ;) What happened to that poor teacher is way OTT, she made a small mistake, if anything, and those bastards saying she should be shot are disgusting :( I have heard reports saying there is nothing in the Qu'ran that says it is wrong to name a teddy Muhammed, the teacher did nothing wrong :(
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Post by bradavon »

My god thousands have gone to the street asking for the teacher to be executed. That wasn't even one of the original options.

All these people are seeing is they've been insulted they're not looking at the bigger picture. If they did execute her that would make life incredibly difficult for the Sudanese government and would hurt the country for decades.

The Sudan is stuck in the middle ages!
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Post by grim_tales »

THOSE people are, it doesnt mean "the Sudan" is.
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Post by Markgway »

There's really nothing I can add to this debate except to say I'm thoroughly disgusted by the Sudanese government and those sick freaks calling for such barbaric punishments over a triviality (and it is).

Police: Excuse me, miss. Some parents are offended by a Teddy Bear being named Muhammed. Could you change the name please?

Teacher: Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't realise. I didn't mean any offence. I'll change the name.

Police: Thanks. Allah be with you.

FUCKING SORTED!!!!! :twisted:
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Post by grim_tales »

It's more than just parents but I agree Mark :( All these bastards do is make their religion look bad :( As I said, other religions can laugh, why not Muslims?
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Post by bradavon »

grim_tales wrote:THOSE people are, it doesnt mean "the Sudan" is.
Fair comment. I would bet most Sudanese are in agreement though.
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Post by thelostdragon »

grim_tales wrote:As I said, other religions can laugh, why not Muslims?
How does a religion laugh?

Anyway, I think it is wrong to apply this act of ignorance to Islam. Even if every single Sudanese person wanted her to be executed (which I don't believe), that would be about 40 million people. How many Muslims are there in the world? About 1.8 billions. :wink:
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Post by grim_tales »

I meant members of the religion can laugh at themselves, sorry for the bad wording. :)
As I listed, Woody Allen, Father Ted,... Omid Djalilli? He's funny :D
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Post by bradavon »

slasher13 wrote:The same could be said about our laws now with the new terrorist laws in place.
You're not honestly comparing the two? Granted our terrorist laws are suspect but come on the British government would never go as far as Shariah law does.
slasher13 wrote:Jewish: So Israel has done nothing?
Christians:
Buddhist:
Fair enough. I was kind of trying to explain that when Muslims get angry it becomes an international incident but when others do it's a local one. I'm not explaining myself too well.
slasher13 wrote:BTW Sudan is the only country who applies Shariah law to non-muslim
I didn't know that, cheers.
Shen wrote:But, i've always figured that if you go to another country to live, work or even visit, then you should understand and know their culture and laws and try to abide by them as you would in your own country.
Would you think it was okay to be thrown in jail, executed or lashed for jay walking in America?

That's not an offence here but is in America, is it therefore fair for a foreigner to know this and every other little law a country has. Like I already said agreed we should of course abide by local laws but as a foreigner there should absolutely be some leeway. Especially when to everyone else there was no malice behind it, it was clearly a genuine mistake.

The line stops dead at respecting local laws when if you don't it's okay execute you.

The dumb thing here is the naming of the teddy bear was some 2-3 months ago. Many people knew about it, even the parents. It was a secretary who complained.
Shen wrote:When foreign people come here, we expect them to understand our cultures and laws, and punish them accordingly when they break them...so isnt it slightly hypocritical to see one of us going to another country breaking the laws and being punished and then whining about how unfair it is?
Everyone of sane mind would agree there is a big difference between stealing something in Britain and naming a teddy bear. I agree overall with your point but the two cannot be compared when breaking it down we're talking about naming teddy bear.

Fine I can see to the Sudanese it causes a great deal of offence whereas to us we say "what's the big deal?" therefore the common sense approach as Mark pointed out is to demand the teacher change te name. Not bloody arrest her.
Shen wrote:Christians...hmm...Ireland? a full religious war with many many casualties.
That was centuries ago, it's not the same. If it were I'd have included The Crusades of all things. The IRA itself was about freedom for Ireland. It's not the same thing.
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Post by thelostdragon »

bradavon wrote:
Shen wrote:Christians...hmm...Ireland? a full religious war with many many casualties.
That was centuries ago...
Are you being serious?
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Post by Markgway »

The IRA were a bunch of murderous terrorist bastards... so let's not use them as any sort of benchmark for just cause.

I agree with LD: this isn't a Muslim issue; it's a Sudanese issue. I can't imagine any British-based Muslim finding such barbarism acceptable (well, except the kind of knobs who workship Abu Hamza -- but these are the minority).

That said: about 95% of the time when there's an act of terrorism or barbarism connected to religion that religion will undoubtedly be Islam. So clearly something is awry and it needs sensible Mulsims to dicate the status quo in these Middle Eastern countries (that's if they don't get executed or jailed first).
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