Man, 24, weds 82-year-old bride

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 02 Oct 2007, 18:53

bradavon wrote:
Morally, it's 'rape'. But so is having sex with an 82 year old woman against her will. So are we saying it's OK to 'rape' an 82 year old woman over a 13 year old girl!?
Except Mark never said having sex with an 82 year old would be against her will. If she was too elderly to give consent then yes it would be rape BUT she would be old enough to be able to understand things by then.

I know, but now people are acting like the kid would be very AGAINST having sex, while the old woman would be 'okay' with it.

So either the choice is between having sex with an old woman against her will, and having sex with a 13 year old against her will... OR the choice of having sex with a 13 year old who 'understands' it, and a 82 year old who understands it.

People really think kids become more and more stupid, the older they themselfs become... but when you really have a normal discussion about serious stuff with a kid, a kid is usually smarter and more mature than many 'adults'.
I completely agree except there is a big difference about talking about sex and doing it. I definitely agree more parents should talk to their kids about sex.

Obviously there is a big difference, although tbh I do feel that we in the western world are also making a little big TOO much of a big deal about sex and virginity and age etc. In the end, sex is a pretty normal act. Ofcourse, we would prefer it if everyone's first time would be at an age they're ready for it, and it's enjoyable etc... but also let's not pretend like having sex a bit too early is damaging for the rest of you're life.
I'm not talking about RAPE now, but about having sex when you might not be really 100% ready for it yet.
Cause many girls have sex and later feel they should have waited a bit longer. That's a shame and too bad, but it's not the worst tragedy possible in the world.

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 02 Oct 2007, 19:12

They make an even bigger deal of it in the Eastern world

but otherwise agreed.

I know, but now people are acting like the kid would be very AGAINST having sex, while the old woman would be 'okay' with it.

Personally I was saying the child wouldn't have the maturity to understand what she was getting into or the implications (such as diseases and children) not that she'd be against it. That is just a yes or a no.

gasteropod · Post by **gasteropod** » 02 Oct 2007, 19:46

If you don't think a 13 year old would be fully prepared for sex, then what makes you think an 82 year would be? Ever heard of senility?

A girl I was seeing a couple of years ago had lost her virginity on her 13th birthday or something actually haha, and she didn't regret it either

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 02 Oct 2007, 22:09

bradavon wrote:Really so 13 and 14 isn't considered in law immediately a paedophile offence?

I don't know what the legal terms are (unlawful sex with a minor?) but no, a person who has sexual intercourse with a 13 or 14 year old is not a paedophile. The term paedophile only applies to sexual abuse of a child aged 12 or under. Paedophiles are interested in young children specifically because they're young children as opposed to young women who are almost adults. An adult with a prurient interest in young adults (ie. 13-16) should correctly be classed as a hebephile. Most people are ignorant of the difference largely due to tabloid headlines and generalisations. That's why if my moral dilema had placed the child at aged 12 I would've chosen the granny. I deliberately chose 13 because it's just past the line of paedophilia and provokes a more interesting debate.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 02 Oct 2007, 22:11

Gawd Mark is smart...

Always a hidden agenda, that guy.

the68monkey · Post by **the68monkey** » 03 Oct 2007, 02:47

Shingster wrote:Indeed, I wish I'd never made that peadophile comment now!

"Peter File? I'm the Peter File!"
-The IT Crowd

But seriously, I just have to shake my head when I read many of the comments in this thread. It's scary how ignorant most people are of child and adolescent development and psychology. Just because a 13-year-old girl might be physically mature, that doesn't mean she's at all emotionally mature or capable of making a rational decision about sex. I work with this age group on a daily basis, and the very, very few girls who are promiscuous at this young age have usually been abused or neglected by an adult and have often already been referred to a social worker. The desire to be sexually active is usually masking a deeper problem. And no, I'm not exaggerating.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Oct 2007, 08:51

Interesting Mark, I've never heard of the term hebephile.

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 03 Oct 2007, 13:41

http://www.answers.com/topic/hebephilia

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 03 Oct 2007, 14:55

Strangely neither word is listed on Dictionary.com.

the68monkey wrote:"Peter File? I'm the Peter File!"
-The IT Crowd

That episode was great

the68monkey wrote:But seriously, I just have to shake my head when I read many of the comments in this thread. It's scary how ignorant most people are of child and adolescent development and psychology. Just because a 13-year-old girl might be physically mature, that doesn't mean she's at all emotionally mature or capable of making a rational decision about sex. I work with this age group on a daily basis, and the very, very few girls who are promiscuous at this young age have usually been abused or neglected by an adult and have often already been referred to a social worker. The desire to be sexually active is usually masking a deeper problem. And no, I'm not exaggerating.

Interesting thanks 68Monkey. I would guess your statement also applies to young boys too?

Is there any scientific explanation why children who are abused (maybe sexually) will sometimes go on to be actively sexual at an early age? I've always presumed it some kind of strange perversion to want to be loved.

Obviously there is a big difference, although tbh I do feel that we in the western world are also making a little big TOO much of a big deal about sex and virginity and age etc. In the end, sex is a pretty normal act. Ofcourse, we would prefer it if everyone's first time would be at an age they're ready for it, and it's enjoyable etc... but also let's not pretend like having sex a bit too early is damaging for the rest of you're life.

I couldn't agree 100% more that many people in the West do have some strange relationship with Sex. It's considered by many a dirty act you only ever do after marriage (or at least a long relationship), by men and women only (same sex heaven forbid) and is only ever the missionary position. Just look at all the extreme conservatives living in many European countries, Australia and The United States. It is something the English speaking world has a particular issue with.

Almost all of the world's religions make way more complicated than it needs to be too. Just listen to the backwards nonsense The Pope spouts about gay rights and abortion (granted a slightly separate issue).

But that doesn't mean a child (of which anyone under 14 is, no matter how mature they are, possibly even 14 too) is capable of knowing the implications of having sex and is able to fully rationalise it as well.

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 03 Oct 2007, 15:10

Jesus, some people need to get out more.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Oct 2007, 15:35

Who is that referring to Romero?
Shouldn't this be moved to Debate?
I'd take the beautiful girl (legality aside).

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 03 Oct 2007, 17:36

grim_tales wrote:I'd take the beautiful girl (legality aside).

It's interesting everyone is picking a legal reason instead of a moral reason to pick the young girl. For me I'd pick a moral stance way before a legal one.

What an an unusual debate you've opened here Mark.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Oct 2007, 17:44

Hang on, one thing we haven't said is whether either party will give their consent in each case. This is important, no?
If you, plus the beautiful young girl and the old woman were the last people on the planet, who would you choose?

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 03 Oct 2007, 17:58

grim_tales wrote:Hang on, one thing we haven't said is whether either party will give their consent in each case. This is important, no?

Yes we have, to death.

grim_tales wrote:If you, plus the beautiful young girl and the old woman were the last people on the planet, who would you choose?

That's the same question Mark asked but worded slightly differently

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 03 Oct 2007, 18:37

Sorry Brad.

Yi-Long · Post by **Yi-Long** » 03 Oct 2007, 19:27

Ok.... another moral dilemma...

13 year old girl... or fat, bald, sexual disease infested Britney Spears!?

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 03 Oct 2007, 23:14

bradavon wrote:What an an unusual debate you've opened here Mark.

Bullets needs a real tough one now and again.

Saves us getting cosy. 8)

bradavon · Post by **bradavon** » 04 Oct 2007, 00:07

True.

grim_tales wrote:Sorry Brad.

No need to apologise. I reckon you'd apologise if someone stood on your foot

romerojpg · Post by **romerojpg** » 04 Oct 2007, 00:50

or bent you over and buggered you.

grim_tales · Post by **grim_tales** » 04 Oct 2007, 09:13

Markgway · Post by **Markgway** » 04 Oct 2007, 12:19

romerojpg wrote:or bent you over and buggered you.

Now that's something Romero knows all about.