Windows 7: A better Vista?

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Yi-Long
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Post by Yi-Long »

When is Windows 7 being released!?
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Post by EvaUnit02 »

No date has been announced yet, AFAIK. Ballpark is late 09 at the earliest.
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Post by Yi-Long »

Thanks Eva. Will probably buy a new PC by then.

My Vista-rig was picked up today to be fixed btw. No idea how long it will take them, and hopefully they arent so stupid that they will now only fix the booting up problem and installing Vista again, and forget about the memory-problem.

On the one hand, it completely sucks whenever your PC breaks down. On the other hand, it does give you an opportunity to start completely 'fresh' again. After a while you will usually have collected a bunch of software on your system that you actually dont really use any more (little patches, downloads, programs, whatever), and it will be nice to just have a clean PC back and just install the programs you want and need, and nothing else... :)
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IronMonkey
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Post by IronMonkey »

Yi-Long wrote:...and it will be nice to just have a clean PC back and just install the programs you want and need, and nothing else... :)
Thats how mine stays. :)

I have a Vista x64 SP1 PC for my main use & gaming, an old file server just running Windows XP Home SP3, an HTPC running Vista x64 SP1, and finally an old (very old) laptop that I mess about with if I want to see a new application or whatever. I'm not really bothered if the laptop breaks!
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bradavon
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Post by bradavon »

Microsoft will only tell us it will be 3 years after Vista which basically means:

November 09 - Business/OEM
January 2010 - Commercial

It's so close to be Release Candidated that I seriously cannot see it coming as late as January 2010. That said we know there will be only one Beta but not one Release Candidate (although it's looking very likely).

Microsoft are also losing out big time with Vista too and they also have to keep plugging XP when it comes to Netbooks, something they surely cannot want to be doing.
Yi-Long wrote:Thanks Eva. Will probably buy a new PC by then.
You never answered why you need one? Your PC isn't exactly old. Just buy an OEM copy of Windows 7. That's what I plan to do.

I plan to test out an copy from Technet first but not bothering to activate it. 30 days is plenty for testing. I'll then likely wipe it and install properly.
IronMonkey wrote:Thats how mine stays. :)
Mine too. If there's one thing I've learnt from using Windows it's "less is more". The more shit you install the more you're asking your PC to go slow.
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bradavon
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Post by bradavon »

Question:

Let's assume for a second Windows 7 isn't coming, Vista is still being plugged as the de facto choice.

How many more years do you reckon XP can be the number one O/S before Microsoft are in serious trouble?

No matter what you think of XP it's technology is now nearly a decade old (9 years and 2 weeks since Windows 2000 in fact) yet it's dominance is still 80-90%. That is staggeringly good by anyone's standards. I cannot think of any other software, that old which is still used by so many. Granted an operating system isn't like normal software but even so. I'd not dream of going back to Office 2000 now. What about Internet Explorer 5.5 (or even 6.0 released a year later in 2001), hell no but millions still stick with nearly decade old Windows XP.

That said, Windows XP cannot stay at this level forever. I'm astonished it's managed to last this long, the Windows O/S is so integral to our computing needs we'll live with it's ageing architecture almost no matter what (note I didn't say out of date).

How many more years do you guys reckon XP could last before people seriously consider moving to MAC OS or Linux?

Personally I'd say 4-5 years tops. People are so entrenched with the Windows world it would take a hell of a lot to shift that many people that MAC OS or Linux start to seriously edge into Windows power but it would have to happen eventually.
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Post by Yi-Long »

Vista is now 2 years old orso? Many home-users will only buy a new PC every 3-5 years orso. I expect Vista to take off pretty soon, unless everyone is holding out for Windows 7 (perhaps partly also because of the current economic situation).

How big was the XP-base 2 years after XP launched!?

I think it's pretty normal Vista isn't that much used yet. It's a pretty demanding OS for most average home-users.

I doubt Microsoft is in any serious trouble, regarding their OS-branch.

Most people that are moving to the MAC are only doing it because of the 'cool' factor. Personally, I feel it's overpriced shite and 90% of it's users are complete morons who are buying it mainly because it's a slick 'Apple', pay wayyy too much money for it, and mainly use it for surfing, MSN, mailing, downloading, and occasionally typing out a letter or whatever... (stuff they could do perfectly well on a 200 bucks PC)

Linux needs alot more word-of-mouth. Many, including me, are still scared of switching over cause we fear our favourite programs or our hardware won't be able to run, or it's hard to install, use, operate, etc...

I'd love it if Linux indeed became the norm, and developers and hardware-manufacturers would always release Linux-drivers for their products, but I don't see it happening yet.
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Post by EvaUnit02 »

Yi-Long wrote:Most people that are moving to the MAC are only doing it because of the 'cool' factor. Personally, I feel it's overpriced shite and 90% of it's users are complete morons who are buying it mainly because it's a slick 'Apple', pay wayyy too much money for it, and mainly use it for surfing, MSN, mailing, downloading, and occasionally typing out a letter or whatever... (stuff they could do perfectly well on a 200 bucks PC).
This is true, although I'd say that it's more accurate that 60-70% of its users are total morons.

I installed Vista x64 SP1 about a month+ ago. In its current state it's a very good OS, it's noticeable improvements (for me anyway) over XP are small, but they do make a difference. I have no problems switching back and forth between the two, which I do daily on some days.
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Post by bradavon »

Yi-Long wrote:Vista is now 2 years old orso?
3 years and 2 months since RTM Commercial.
Yi-Long wrote:Many home-users will only buy a new PC every 3-5 years orso. I expect Vista to take off pretty soon, unless everyone is holding out for Windows 7 (perhaps partly also because of the current economic situation).
It won't happen now. Vista has such a bad name people simply are ignoring it like the plague. Less so at home but in the business arena something like 90-95% downgrade to XP.
Yi-Long wrote:How big was the XP-base 2 years after XP launched!?
Much bigger than Vista but that wasn't really my point. XP is based on technology of nearly a decade ago. XP in 2004 wasn't half as old.
Yi-Long wrote:It's a pretty demanding OS for most average home-users.
How so? If people actually bothered to give it ago they'd see it's easier than XP in many ways. I love Instant Search and really miss it while at work on XP.

Besides the big UI changes are going to be there in Windows 7 (they're even more extreme in fact, the super bar will confuse many), those ignoring Vista re just delaying the inevitable.
Yi-Long wrote:I doubt Microsoft is in any serious trouble, regarding their OS-branch.
Neither do I but I eventually they would be, which in reality shouldn't be an issue as it's looking likely W7 will be a hit. It will struggle in the business arena though.

All it's security enhancements are already being achieved at the server level and it's UI enhancements aren't enough for most IT departments. Office 2010 with it's Office Live should do well though (to take on Google Apps).
Yi-Long wrote:Most people that are moving to the MAC are only doing it because of the 'cool' factor. Personally, I feel it's overpriced shite
I doubt it's shite but agreed it's way too overpriced. I heard the cheapest laptop is £700. WTF! Is MAC OS that much better? I doubt it.

I can well believe MAC OS for what it can do, it does it very well indeed. People probably do more on MACs than we give credit but maybe not to the level of Windows.

The serious Achilles heel MAC has (and always will) is it's central base. Apple's are so locked down being built entirely in house that they simply cannot compete with the hundreds/thousands of Wintel companies out there. This is why Bill won and why Microsoft continue to win. Apple are just as sneaky as locking you in as Microsoft are, more so in fact.

This does mean (I'd imagine) the software and hardware do talk better with each other but then the supported hardware/software is much lower.
Yi-Long wrote:I'd love it if Linux indeed became the norm, and developers and hardware-manufacturers would always release Linux-drivers for their products, but I don't see it happening yet.
The serious Achilles heel Linux has (and always will) is a lack of central "programming". There are so many flavours out there it's just too bewildering.

I'd not want Linux to become the norm. It's just too complicated and I don't really see the need for it.
EvaUnit02 wrote:This is true, although I'd say that it's more accurate that 60-70% of its users are total morons.
70-80% of Windows users are total morons though.
EvaUnit02 wrote:In its current state it's a very good OS, it's noticeable improvements (for me anyway) over XP are small, but they do make a difference.
Agreed. You're going to love W7 if you want lots of UI enhancements. It's clear MS made extensive changes under the hood in Vista and on the bonnet with W7.

Libraries and the Superbar are worth it alone.
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Post by bradavon »

Microsoft wants to 'rescue' apps for Windows 7:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-10193658-56.html
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Post by bradavon »

You'll also be able to turn off a slew of other apps including DVD Maker, Windows Media Center and Media Player. All can be reinstalled without the DVD.

The IE8 one apparantly just deletes the EXE though, which seems pretty pointless. Not that I'd want to remove IE. It's needed sometimes and is too integration into the Microsoft World to avoid entirely.
This one is particularly interesting, thanks. It clearly shows two things:

1. Vista is certainly not slower than XP (although I still argue it "seems" slower)
2. W7 is much, much faster (it certainly "seems" faster).
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Post by EvaUnit02 »

MS gambles on W7 'Starter' edition, aimed at netbooks and low cost PCs.

Personally I think that a crippled OS that's only able to run three programs at once is the most retarded idea ever.

Is Windows 7 reliable enough to release now?
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Post by bradavon »

So do I. It's considered this is a deliberate ploy to sell W7 cheaper and get people to upgrade. I read Microsoft are selling XP cheaper on Netbooks to not make it look bad compared to Linux.

If I did buy a Netbook I'd have to upgrade to Home Premium. Windows 7 makes use of Aero way more than Vista does (in a productive sense). Also like you say 3 apps is just ridiculous.

I am considering buying one when W7 is released (my laptop is too big for the odd trip down town etc...) but will probably just get a much better Smartphone instead (something from the likes of HTC when Windows Mobile 7 is released).

I cannot see W7 before October earliest, a good thing IMO. I want them to get this one as right as humanly possible. Vista is perfectly fine until then. No doubt Microsoft are under lots of pressure from hardware vendors to get it released though.
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Post by bradavon »

Microsoft promises to release Windows 7, free:

http://www.itwire.com/content/view/24174/1103/
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Post by Yi-Long »

Try it on another day, Brad. :D
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Post by bradavon »

Screenshots of the Top Ten Windows 7 features:

http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0 ... o=1,00.asp

p.s - There'd be no fun trying it on another day ;).
Last edited by bradavon on 01 Apr 2009, 13:00, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by bradavon »

Exclusive: Bigfoot Discovered In Windows 7:

http://www.pcplus.co.uk/node/3009
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bradavon
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Post by bradavon »

Microsoft Watching OEM Bloatware for Windows 7:

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/window ... ,7460.html

About bloody time. I doubt it will mean anything close to clean systems but it's certainly a start. The fact the entire Windows Live Essentials suite will come pre-loaded on Dell PCs flies in the face of this.
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Post by Yi-Long »

Yeah, it's fucking annoying having to first delete all the pre-installed CRAP in order to replace it all with the programs I want.

I'd even prefer it if when you start up your new PC for the very first time, it would just ASK you which programs (including windows-programs) to install...
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Post by bradavon »

Yi-Long wrote:Yeah, it's fucking annoying having to first delete all the pre-installed CRAP in order to replace it all with the programs I want.
It certainly is and this still isn't as good as a clean CD. When installed XP on my brother's laptop it took twice as long to install the software than XP.

As he would use none of it. I formatted and installed again, clicking Cancel when it asked for Disc 2.
Yi-Long wrote:I'd even prefer it if when you start up your new PC for the very first time, it would just ASK you which programs (including windows-programs) to install...
W7 has significantly less bloat. It still install WordPad, Paint etc.. but they take up so little space I don't mind.

None of the Mail, Photo, Calendar software is installed. You're expected to install Windows Live Essentials. Oddly DVD Maker is still present. As it Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player obviously.

TBH the software MS pre-load isn't really a problem. It's all the crap OEMs put on top that slow things down. I always format and re-install using a proper clean disc nowadays. 90% of the time the license code works perfectly fine.
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Post by bradavon »

Half open outbound limit fix for Windows 7:

http://windows7news.com/2009/04/14/half ... windows-7/

Presumably this will invoke Vista's file modification security crap though. I forget what it's called. The software looks like an easy way to change it though.
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Post by bradavon »

Windows 7 Release Candidate coming the 5th of May:

http://www.computerworld.com/action/art ... Id=9131779

And:

http://www.microsoft-watch.com/content/ ... may_5.html

I think we can safely say RTM will be coming this year, not 2010.
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Post by bradavon »

I don't think I've mentioned this. In Windows 7 Windows Live Messenger doesn't close to the System Tray by default and instead permanently sits in the Super bar. This effect is very much like leaving the Main window minimized in 2000/XP/Vista.

This is annoying as it has no use when you're not using it. To fix this:

1. Right click on the Windows Live Messenger EXE
2. Choose Properties
3. Under "Compatibility" choose Vista

Problem fixed. It will now close to the System Tray like it did before Windows 7. Forcing MSN to run in Vista Compatibility mode has no other noticeable effect.
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Post by bradavon »

Windows 7 RC review - our in-depth hands on:

http://www.techradar.com/news/software/ ... ons-596034

I so cannot wait for Windows 7 RTM (along with Windows Mobile 7). It's so god damn great!

The new "Remote Playing" in the RC build looks handy. Once enabled you can use WMP12 to access your Media on the Web, provided your Home PC is online.

All sources I've read say WMP12 will be for Vista and W7 only. WMP12 on W7 only uses Libraries, so that will need changing for Vista (so it supports the Classic Media folders).
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