Barack Obama's inaugaration - from 4pm BBC1

[Markgway]

Now does my comment above make sense?

Made more sense the way I said it.

You're interested in making sweeping generalisations though.

Such as? I'm not an anti-republican (which is what I know you're assuming), I'm anti-terrorist. I understand the POV of those who want a united Ireland. I'm not saying necessarily that I agree with said view, just that I can understand it. What I don't understand and refuse to ever except is the use of terror and violence against an innocent people to achieve goals. Innocent men, women, and CHILDREN were murdered by the IRA to make their point. You think I want to watch any film that presents a sympathetic view of one of these so-called "soldiers"?

Like it EVER works out that way. There would be mass innocent casualties.

Only if the same kind of gung-ho incompetence employed in Iraq had been employed in N.I. That's not a reason to do nothing. Intelligence and proper targeting would have hit at the heart of their operation. And bear in mind that Britain would not have been invading a foreign country, it was (and is) a part of the UK. Inviting Sinn Fein into government is no different than inviting the 7/7 bombers to do likewise (obviously as suicide bombers they're dead - but you get what I mean). A big difference is that Muslim terrorists are the target of America also so we Brits have a big dog to hide behind.

Tell that to the people of Brighton.

Brighton happened in 1984 because for 15 years the UK government fumbled and fudged their actions. As soon as the IRA declared war on Britain in 1969 we should have gone into N.I and dealt with them hard. But for some reason since WW2 Britain has become a lily-livered country that seems incapable of getting it right. I dread to think what would happen if Hitler was in power now (and of course America wasn't involved).

[saltysam]

We wasted no time going to war over the Falklands.

[Markgway]

Strange that. The UK got more upset about what was going on in The Falklands than they did in Northern Ireland. I wonder why that was?

[saltysam]

Strange that. The UK got more upset about what was going on in The Falklands than they did in Northern Ireland. I wonder why that was?

I think Maggie had an election looming

[bradavon]

Such as?

Hunger.

Only if the same kind of gung-ho incompetence employed in Iraq had been employed in N.I.

You reckon killing a few hundred people wouldn't mean innocent people would also get killed? Those who weren't killed first would fight back. It wouldn't also be legal in a modern democracy. Your logic makes no sense at all. The alternative to having ex-terrorists in power isn't to murder them all.

As soon as the IRA declared war on Britain in 1969 we should have gone into N.I and dealt with them hard.

They declared war much earlier.

But for some reason since WW2 Britain has become a lily-livered country that seems incapable of getting it right.

Hundreds of years of imperial power has made us uncomfortable.

I dread to think what would happen if Hitler was in power now (and of course America wasn't involved).

If they invaded us, we'd obviously fight back, no contest. Abroad who knows.

We wasted no time going to war over the Falklands.

Yeah that was a joke, very political. Trying to show we still had it.

Fighting back for a country we shouldn't have been in in the first place, sending such a large army over.

Strange that. The UK got more upset about what was going on in The Falklands than they did in Northern Ireland. I wonder why that was?

It was much easier to win. The Argentinian army was much smaller and not a guerilla army like the IRA. It was also not entrenched like the IRA was. The Falklands was also "just happening" so in the news. Like Salty said she had an election to win too.

[thelostdragon]

Poor guy, this Obama. A white guy called Bush makes a huge mess in his own country and around the world and the capitalists bring a black guy to reign in order to clean the mess up, making him believe that he was actually elected thanks to the democratic being of the United States of America. My sympathy is with him.

[bradavon]

making him believe that he was actually elected thanks to the democratic being of the United States of America.

Are you saying he wasn't democratically elected?

Technically he's just as much a white person, as black. No one sees it that way though.

[grim_tales]

As Reginald D Hunter said "He's black enough"

[Yi-Long]

When Barack Obama is in a New York alley combing his hair with a comb, he's black enough to get shot 50 times by the NYPD... so he's BLACK.

If this guys was a plumber, a busdriver, a criminal, a bum, a guy working at McDonald's, white people wouldnt be claiming :'Ow... he's half WHITE you know!?!?'. He'd just be another BLACK worthless asshole to them.

So all those people now 'claiming' Barack for 'our side', is just a little bit pathetic.

Personally, I couldnt care less about his colour, but I'm glad it's a black guy, simply because it will mean maybe a few more people will open their eyes and see that the colour of someone's skin isnt all that important as some will make you believe.

Most of all though, I'm simply glad they managed to elect a SMART, articulate and decent guy. He SEEMS honest and upright, and of THIS generation. You can already see him changing lots of wrongs of the stuff that annoys us of the system, and of Bush's period in office. He reaches out, he DEMANDS transparency, he's FOR stemcell-research and that kind of development in terms of science, he's pro-choice, he's a realist, and most importantly, he inspires people to get things done. You can't change a country that isnt willing to participate in that 'change'.

So far, he's doing good, but obviously he's in a huge deep black hole without a proper rope to climb out. Bush has left a huge mess, and tbh, the situation in Europe, and here in Holland, isnt much better. Anyone with a brain could have seen this coming a long long time ago, but apparently people with brains rarely get elected these days. oo many people are more concerned about being able to buy a house they can't realistically afford, than worry about their children's future...

I don't know how it is in the UK and Germany and France, but housing-prices are just crazy here, and too many people are taking advantage of that system to hike up prices and get rich very quickly, and goverment doesnt deal with the problem in order to not upset the house-owners and lose their votes. I've been warning against this for many MANY years, and even now in this crisis the goverment doesnt step up and fix what's right, but instead opt for injecting large sums of money into banks, which have been part of problem...

To get back to the race issue now. Some say:'see, it doesnt matter what colour someone's skin is: anyone who's smart enough can get elected'.

It's bullshit. This IS about race. If Obama would have been white instead of black (and I mean REAL white, instead of 'half-white'), Obama would have already won many MANY months ago. McCain wouldnt even have been a threat. The reason this whole thing lasted till election-day, was simply because of the colour of his skin.

To further push my point that it's still about race: If McCain would have been the exact same guy, with the same ideas and the same behaviour and the same age and the same voice and the same running mate... but he would have been BLACK, he wouldnt even have been in the position to run for office. No-one would have taken that old idiot serious if he would have been BLACK. But it happens he's white, so who cares if he's an old corrupt sneaky lying nutjob...(!)

Like I said, I'm very glad Obama won, cause I genuinely think he's honest and smart, and it's a great step in American history and for equality etc... but were far from 'there' yet.

It will be interesting to see how the coming years will turn out. I think many of us can expect things to get worse before they'll get better (unless we emigrate to better parts of the world), and we'll just have to see what the world will look like in 10 years time. Looking back at history, at simular situations as this one, and looking realistically at the future, the increase of humans and thus more stress on our natural resources and the environment, one will find it hard to be really optimistic.

[Markgway]

He's black. He's white. Who gives a fuck? Just let him get on with the job.

[grim_tales]

You don't care about his colour but you're glad he is black as it means people will care less about skin colour? Eh?
His skin colour SHOULDN'T be a big deal but I guess it IS because of what black people had to go through in the USA. Whether he's black or mixed race, the sentiment is the same. 50 years ago he'd still be made to sit at the back of the bus. It shows how far we've come that we have such a man as President.

[Yi-Long]

You don't care about his colour but you're glad he is black as it means people will care less about skin colour? Eh?
His skin colour SHOULDN'T be a big deal but I guess it IS because of what black people had to go through in the USA. Whether he's black or mixed race, the sentiment is the same. 50 years ago he'd still be made to sit at the back of the bus. It shows how far we've come that we have such a man as President.

PERSONALLY I don't care about his skincolour when it comes to how I feel how will do as a president. I'm just glad he's a smart guy that seems to be reaching out.

However, I do feel that for 'equal rights' etc, it's a good thing there is now a black guy in the White House, simply because it might show them a side of a black guy/family they didnt know and might not have thought to be possible. Believe it or not, there are still alot of dumbasses in the world who DO judge a person on the outside of their skin.
You need rolemodels like Barack Obama to show them that black people can be just as smart, or smarter, as white people.
Kinda like what The Cosby Show did in the 80's.

So personally, I never made a big deal of his colour, and I just like the guy for what/who he is, but truth is MANY do still have different views about people from another colour, another religion, another gender, whatever. For those people, it's good to have someone in there who might convince them to look at their own prejudiced views again.

Also, ofcourse, for the black community, they now have a new rolemodel to 'look up to' in terms of what is possible to become when you work really hard for it, and also have a fair share of good fortune and talent.
Many people thought this day would never come, or at least not in the short term, and it did, and it will give them some extra hope and optimisme, and maybe inspire the kids to give that few extre percents of effort.

So it matters and it doesnt matter. It's a huge step forward while it doesnt change anything. Yes, this can be confusing, yet it's all perfectly logical.

[grim_tales]

I agree with you, it is very significant and a huge step forward in one way. As you say, Obama seems a smart, charismatic guy - lets hope he proves that